I need a 4 row or 4 core radiator for my Lamborghini countach kit car that uses a fiero chassis with a v8 chevy sb engine installed in it. overall dimensions of radiator can not be larger than 19 high x 24 inches wide. any help? thanks
Griffin should still have a pretty good one available through Summit racing, it is like a double row stocker at 2.5" thick if I recall correctly. By comparison on my 4.2 L V6 during a replacement of my first Champion radiator which failed, the Champion was only a little better than the brand new stock Fiero radiator I used temporarily while waiting for a replacement and having run a 350 on a stock radiator before I believe it wise to look for something better than the Champion.
I had a shop offer to build me a unit for about what the Griffin will run using the newer technology core tubing found in the liquid to air intercoolers so you may want to inquire about that. The Champion unit is decent for well above stock performance but I believe the double 1.25" row Griffin will out do it by a comparison of cooling surface area.
I bought this for my 3.4 hybrid and cannot say enough good things about it : http: //www.ebay.com/itm/130810451521?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT.
Griffin should still have a pretty good one available through Summit racing, it is like a double row stocker at 2.5" thick if I recall correctly. By comparison on my 4.2 L V6 during a replacement of my first Champion radiator which failed, the Champion was only a little better than the brand new stock Fiero radiator I used temporarily while waiting for a replacement and having run a 350 on a stock radiator before I believe it wise to look for something better than the Champion.
I had a shop offer to build me a unit for about what the Griffin will run using the newer technology core tubing found in the liquid to air intercoolers so you may want to inquire about that. The Champion unit is decent for well above stock performance but I believe the double 1.25" row Griffin will out do it by a comparison of cooling surface area.
Griffin makes some good stuff but I do not believe that they have a direct fit radiator for the Fiero. Am I wrong about this? I have the Champion 3 core on my Fiero and while its not a V8 it cools very well. I know of a few 4.9L swaps that use the stock Fiero V6 radiator and they have not overheated. This brings up the question of how much radiator do you really need?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
yes I prefer a 4 row/core radiator. I currently have a large capacity griffin which is not cooling car now. I had even bought a tool which removes all the air pockets from system and car still runs hot.
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Griffin makes some good stuff but I do not believe that they have a direct fit radiator for the Fiero. Am I wrong about this? I have the Champion 3 core on my Fiero and while its not a V8 it cools very well. I know of a few 4.9L swaps that use the stock Fiero V6 radiator and they have not overheated. This brings up the question of how much radiator do you really need?
Archie's master kit for the V8 swaps uses the Champion 3 core as well, I think.
yes I prefer a 4 row/core radiator. I currently have a large capacity griffin which is not cooling car now. I had even bought a tool which removes all the air pockets from system and car still runs hot.
What radiator exactly are using currently. If it's just higher coolant capacity, it doesn't necessarily mean it cools better.
What radiator exactly are using currently. If it's just higher coolant capacity, it doesn't necessarily mean it cools better.
And are you certain the radiator is the problem?
Agreed. Years ago I had a V8 Chev Monza that ran a little hot. When the original 2 core radiator leaked I replaced it with a 3 core and made it worse. I just increased the amount of water that needed to be cooled with the same amount of air going through it.
What would have worked better was a 2 core radiator with MORE FINS to dissipate the heat.
Originally posted by fierosound: Agreed. Years ago I had a V8 Chev Monza that ran a little hot. When the original 2 core radiator leaked I replaced it with a 3 core and made it worse. I just increased the amount of water that needed to be cooled with the same amount of air going through it.
What would have worked better was a 2 core radiator with MORE FINS to dissipate the heat.
Well, just having more fins won't necessarily dissipate the heat any better either. More cores does because there are more pipes running through the fins, and thus more surface area of the water against the pipes, and more surface area of the pipes being hit with the air.
What I was asking was if the "large capacity griffin" radiator was just more capacity, and not more cores/fins. If it's the same as a stock radiator, but with larger tanks on it, the capacity will be greater, but it doesn't mean it's going to cool any better, just because it can hold more coolant. You need more surface area.
But even that won't help if the radiator isn't the problem. Too many other things can cause overheating problems.
raysr11 may be on to what you should look at, as it is similar in arrangement to what Griffin offers for more than twice as much unless the extra .5" width in the Griffin unit means 1.25" wide tubes instead of 1". There are two stock radiators for the Fiero, 1" wide tube and 1.25" wide tubes, you have to assess the tube width and fin per inch count to get an idea of the true cooling capacity between the options. The Champion radiator tubes are about .5" wide so a three row radiator isn't necessarily better unless all else the same it exposes more coolant to the air stream.
The Champion is better than the stock unit but in my experience with a motor and Summer temps that put the two to the test in close proximity back to back, the Champion did not impress me with its performance relative to a brand new stock V6 radiator. I found the fact that it was a 3 row increased my expectations a bit further than it's actual performance. There was about an 8-10 deg lower temp avg where it held the motor to ~196 deg around town where the stocker was roughly 204. Have you checked for possible improvement in the cooling fan area?
right now I have a griffin 1-25202-x radiator which measures 24 wide x 19 high x 3 wide with 1" tubes. motor was overheating after about 45 minutes of driving. have electric water pump rated at 55 gpm . 16" fan mounted on radiator and have air dam to deflect air up to radiator. these Lamborghini countach kit cars have a history of overheating and what ive read most owners get a 4 row/core radiator to solve problem, hopefully I can find one.
right now I have a griffin 1-25202-x radiator which measures 24 wide x 19 high x 3 wide with 1" tubes. motor was overheating after about 45 minutes of driving. have electric water pump rated at 55 gpm . 16" fan mounted on radiator and have air dam to deflect air up to radiator. these Lamborghini countach kit cars have a history of overheating and what ive read most owners get a 4 row/core radiator to solve problem, hopefully I can find one.
Have you inspected every inch of the coolant tubes for kinking along the side of the car? Most of the time the kink is within 12-15" of the rear of the tube. Kinked tubes will restrict flow and cause an overheat condition regardless of radiator size (just cant get the coolant out of the engine fast enough).
What are your radiator cap and fill cap pressures? Where is the overflow (front/back). I setup all my SBC's to fill from the rear, overflow to the front. So the front cap is 16 psi, the rear cap is 20+ and the overflow nipple is removed/plugged so no air can reenter the system at the rear.
Can you post a picture of the radiator installed in your replica (both top/bottom). Once you get past the items above, overheating above 35 mph is normally an air ducting issue where the air isn't properly ducted to the radiator, or the sides/top of the radiator are not properly sealed so that the ducted air is forced to go through the radiator vs. around it (through open gaps along the top/sides).
Overheating at idle/stop/go traffic is often fan/shroud related. Many aftermarket fans/shrouds are not an Upgrade, but a Degrade in performance. The fan opening(s) often times are smaller than stock fiero (will limit air flow at interstate speeds) and the aftermarket shrouds don't normally cover the entire radiator core or properly seal against the backside so the air has to be pulled through the radiator (making them less effective at idle/low speeds).
Originally posted by redchevy: right now I have a griffin 1-25202-x radiator which measures 24 wide x 19 high x 3 wide with 1" tubes. motor was overheating after about 45 minutes of driving. have electric water pump rated at 55 gpm . 16" fan mounted on radiator and have air dam to deflect air up to radiator. these Lamborghini countach kit cars have a history of overheating and what ive read most owners get a 4 row/core radiator to solve problem, hopefully I can find one.
Famous Myth but More rows/cores does not = better cooling. By time the air reaches cores 3 and 4, cores 1 and 2 makes air too hot to do much cooling. Worse more cores often restrict air flow thru the radiator itself.
Problem points to Anything wrong w/ coolant system and/or f'd air flow to and from the radiator.
Air must have easy entry and exit paths or radiator can't cool.
Having a fan on all the time is often a band-aid fix that hides the real problems. Car moving 10-15mph will move more air that any fan setup IF air flow is setup correctly.
Examples: Electric WP many not be pumping coolant as advertize. Anything cause pluming problems, like Crushed Pipe. Missing body panels that direct and force air flow to radiator. Front air damn but nothing to duct air from body to radiator is a big problem.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
right now I have a griffin 1-25202-x radiator which measures 24 wide x 19 high x 3 wide with 1" tubes. motor was overheating after about 45 minutes of driving. have electric water pump rated at 55 gpm . 16" fan mounted on radiator and have air dam to deflect air up to radiator. these Lamborghini countach kit cars have a history of overheating and what ive read most owners get a 4 row/core radiator to solve problem, hopefully I can find one.
Do you have the stock Fiero fan and shroud? Do you have a shroud on the radiator at all? Does the shroud cover all of the radiator?
Does it overheat at highway speeds, or only in local city driving/traffic? What thermostat are you using? What temp fan switch?
If it's a Countach kit, is the front air dam missing? Without the air dam, much less air will go through the radiator, and lead to overheating issues. That'd probably be the first thing I'd look for on a kit car with an overheating problem. Sometimes they will get left off for looks.
Chevy trucks with the towing package upgrades don't even have 4 core radiators. More isn't always better.
don't have any pics right now due to putting rebuilt engine in and some parts off the car. don't have the stock Fiero fan and shroud. I do have a shroud on the radiator which covers all the radiator on one side. it does overheat at highway speeds and in local city driving/traffic. using 160 deg thermostat . radiator fan on all the time. Countach kit, and front dam on.
Originally posted by theogre: Famous Myth but More rows/cores does not = better cooling. By time the air reaches cores 3 and 4, cores 1 and 2 makes air too hot to do much cooling. Worse more cores often restrict air flow thru the radiator itself.
It sounds sensible but I recall seeing a NASCAR segment years ago that went into detail on the radiator saying pretty much the exact opposite. The following rows were staggered in a manner that obstructed straight through flow so that air would come into contact with all of the tubes to help facilitate heat exchange, in addition to that, the heat exchange rate is also a function of airspeed through the core. A perfect example is the wind chill factor, the faster the wind blows against your skin, the faster you loose heat. As long as there is a temp difference and exchange of heat among the additional tubes there is additional cooling.
His problem appears to be something else as it shouldn't take 45 minutes for an insufficient cooling system to show signs. I would check all flexible hoses to make sure they're not collapsing (had it happen before and have seen it happen on a hot motor) and definitely check the electric water pump to make sure it's not flowing intermittently efficient due to a bad bearing.
I'm using the stock radiator from my 88 duke with my 4.9L swap. I was expecting to need to change it immediately, I really didn't think the rad could handle the load. Surprisingly, regardless of if it's sustained idling or hard driving, the engine stays at a great temp! However, when I do my Murcielago swap, I will have to look closely at the air routing to make sure I can maintain the cooling I have now. I'll upgrade to a 3 core at that point...but just because it's a pain to change it later, so I may as well start with a new one.
You might want to first try a non-restrictive high flow thermostat. I typically run the 180* AC Delco version. It may not cure an overheating problem, but it does help.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 08-17-2014).]
I can tell you that running a carb'd 4.9, the stock Fiero rad is just not up to the job. I put in a 3 core aluminum with the hookup for an oil cooler built in.
I have not had to use the oil cooler yet, but I may hook it up after this season. I run a 160 degree thermostat and a 180 degree fan sensor switch.
So far it has proven to be adequate with the stock Fiero fan hooked up, no shroud.
This summer has not been very hot here, so I really haven't given it the Death Valley scenario test, and I expect the oil cooler feature is a good idea to hook up.
Originally posted by Arns85GT: I can tell you that running a carb'd 4.9, the stock Fiero rad is just not up to the job. I put in a 3 core aluminum with the hookup for an oil cooler built in.
Did you ever run it with the stock Fiero radiator? Or you installed the 3 core from the start?
I run a COMPLETELY blocked off front bumper and a stock hood.... zero airflow goes to the stock radiator... and I have very few to no problems with cooling making 800hp. The fan is required to run at all times and long trips on hot days will show a few degrees higher than normal temps.
The key here is the Lambo kit car. Standard fiero fixes don't work because the problem he experiences is insufficient airflow through the radiator. The front end of the Lambo conversion sends most of the air around the sides and over the top. That being said, the stock radiators leave quite a bit to be desired. Some have success running them, others do not. Mine would run at no more that 220 in the summer heat but temps would climb if I used the a/c.
The 4 core radiator and high flow electric fans will do wonders in this application. You may want to play with thermostats...... In the winter you may have a to increase the temps as you may have trouble building enough heat. But.......... Creative sheetmetal work is really needed in order to get proper airflow going though the cores. Another solution would be to install a couple small auxiliary radiators and fans in the upper air intakes. The Lambo front end really does kill airflow. Actually, removing the lambo front air dam will allow the lower factory style air deflector to actually work. Looks like crap that way though.
My Murcielago had a sbc with a fiero radiator in the front when I bought it. It was overheating at highway speeds and ok around town. All I had to do was get an air dam to deflect air up to the radiator. When we switched to a turbo ls4 and a rear mounted radiator it was fine until I overheated climbing up lookout pass. I've been dealing with overheating ever since and at this point I have to run the heater to keep the temperature down.
I had an old M38A1 Willys with a radiator thicker than 2 bricks. Always ran hot. Swapped in a 229 Chev V6 with the same radiator, worse! Found a '66 Jeep front clip with a V6 radiator, very thin and open around the fins. No more heating problems. The old time cars always had heating problems always had thick radiators. As time moved on radiators got thinner and wider. Cooling problems cured. Thick does not equal better. IMO.
