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Rust dripping from under the car by NetCam
Started on: 08-13-2014 08:22 PM
Replies: 38 (777 views)
Last post by: 2.5 on 08-26-2014 01:46 PM
NetCam
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Report this Post08-13-2014 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So it seemed to have at the very least let up, but now it's worse than ever. Every time it rains, my car is leaving a nasty trail of rust all the way down the driveway. I'm unfortunately thinking it must be coming from my upper frame rails because from the engine bay or under the car everything looks fine. It appears to be originating directly below the battery. Any comments/words of wisdom?



I moved the car directly up so you can see the line of where it's coming from

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Report this Post08-13-2014 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gtoformulaClick Here to Email gtoformulaSend a Private Message to gtoformulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pull the battery. Check for a rusted battery tray. Doesn't take very much battery acid to create a lot of corrosion.
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David Hambleton
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Report this Post08-13-2014 09:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
1984 SE over 360,000 km: battery tray area before: (same rust on driveway issue)




After: (not pretty but very solid)

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NetCam
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Report this Post08-13-2014 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Had the battery out, there was a bit of corrosion from a battery leak, but it was all cleaned up before the car was put back together. I can't see anything much from inside the engine compartment or from under the car.
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Report this Post08-14-2014 10:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To fix it you'll have to remove parts or stick scopes in areas to find out where it is , then rustproof and paint the part. But under the tray makes sense its the first place to rust usually. Also it has to be a place where water can touch and run down when it rains. You should be able to see the rust trail where the rusty water ran down to drip off the bottom.
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turbo86se
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Report this Post08-14-2014 06:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for turbo86seClick Here to Email turbo86seSend a Private Message to turbo86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mine did that for a while. Turned out the cat delete straight pipe was rusting a little bit around the welds.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post08-15-2014 02:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My 85 is doing the same thing. it's a rust free car, so I'm thinking it MUST be the battery tray (Tray does have a lot of surface rust.)
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post08-15-2014 05:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You should probably take your wheel well liners off and see what's going on. The first time I did this (yesterday) I found this:



Formerly known as the rail...

Patching is not going so well. While the metal is hard to drill through, it barely holds a screw, if at all.

You really can't say your car is rust free until you take it all apart. One side of my trunk has some openings, the other side is missing. Just inches from the photo above the strut towers are solid, still with good paint. Underneath looks fine. Radiator braces not bad. You just can't judge by a few peaks here and there.
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NetCam
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Report this Post08-15-2014 07:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm thinking about taking a few parts off to have a good look this weekend. Afraid I will probably find some nasty rust up in there. My undercarriage is pretty rust free and so is the trunk, but I think that the corners have been redone.
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tshark
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Report this Post08-16-2014 10:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-08-2018).]

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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post08-16-2014 12:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The more you look at frame rail restoration the more reasonable it seems.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum9/HTML/000012.html

I spent over a hundred bucks at Menards this morning getting stuff to patch things up, but if I ride my bike to work until winter I can probably afford the tools or someone's labor to make and install a set of proper rails. If I had a more elaborate garage I wouldn't hesitate to do it myself, even though I don't have a welder or know how to use one.

Everyone should be pulling their wheel liners and doing this as a preemptive move. It looks like the more original rail you have left, the better.

There's also a thread on doing the trunk corners.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post08-16-2014 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My car was totally disassembled 2 years ago, Rust free, except the battery box, keep meaning to replace it, but it's SOO HOT !
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post08-16-2014 06:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, I know, Florida. I'm sure there are Fiero's that have managed to stay somewhere dry for thirty years, but as your battery box shows even that's no guarantee. Yours was also disassembled. Without that there is no way to know.

Five years from now Fiero's may be known not for fun, not even for fires, but for fraud. People will buy a nice looking car, find out it's rotten underneath, and cry foul. The PO will say, "I didn't know about any rust." People will say, "Yeah, right." The buyers will say, "Don't buy a Fiero!" This and accidents where cars disintegrate on impact could raise insurance rates.

Replacing the rails and cleaning up and painting the rest, or everything if the rails are ok, is not so expensive or time consuming that we should ride around in blissful ignorance hoping to be lucky.

If you paint and patch where you're working it's not long before you have much of the car done. We just need to make sure we're looking for rust, not hiding from it.
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NetCam
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Report this Post08-16-2014 07:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9:

If you paint and patch where you're working it's not long before you have much of the car done. We just need to make sure we're looking for rust, not hiding from it.


Good advice, I think I've been happy thinking mine has escaped and what little I can see is of no consequence. That's probably why so many ended up in the junkyards, rusted beyond repair because everything looked fine on the surface.
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tshark
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Report this Post08-16-2014 07:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, the fiberglass bodies can be misleading. I fixed that one area, then moved on to a Fiero with less rust before I had any more unpleasant surprises. I was honest with the new buyer, who did a complete restore. At least, that was the idea. They have it all apart.

I had several offers on that Fiero, but I held off until I found someone I thought would care for the car.

It is a shame, all the nice Fieros that have been crushed. Others are taken apart for one reason or another and end up being junked as a result, for one reason or another.

It is getting harder and harder to buy nice Fieros. I passed on 2, because I can't care for them properly.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post08-16-2014 11:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I took my battery out to find: I forgot, I already Did replace the battery tray 2 years ago. but it's surface rusted again ! Last time I Bolted it in, so all I had to do was unbolt it sandblast and paint and re install. no other rust. I've seen a lot of rusty fieros, but most of them started life up north. other than the battery box, neither of mine has ANY (not even surface) Rust. maybe because I'm in the middle of the state, no salt water.
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tshark
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Report this Post08-17-2014 08:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-08-2018).]

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post08-17-2014 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
GREASE ! LOL
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post08-17-2014 06:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think the problem with the battery tray is the acid being washed out when rain gets in the battery. I put a heavy plastic bag over it to keep this from happening.

I'm thinking the rails people are installing may be overkill. Not only are the retrofit rails a much heavier guage steel, they are four sides and solid, where the original were three and had big holes. This may add more weight and rigidity than is appropriate. Instead of disintegrating in a crash the strong rails might transmit the forces into the passenger compartment instead of crumpling as they were designed to.

Thinner gauge rails might be easier to make and install and safer. I'm going to measure the good parts with a caliper and compare to weldable plates that can be found at Menards.
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Report this Post08-17-2014 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-08-2018).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post08-18-2014 01:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9:

I think the problem with the battery tray is the acid being washed out when rain gets in the battery.


It's a crappy place for the battery, right below the grill that let's all the rain wash down the battery.

There's only one solution...

Mount the battery up front!

I picked up an '88 Formula last summer and it was rust free... except for the battery tray area. This is what we found when we pulled the passenger side wheel well liners. Ugly, ugly...




And this is why it's great having a buddy who enjoys doing sheet metal work.




And notice no battery tray. Don't need one back there any more.

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tshark
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Report this Post08-18-2014 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-08-2018).]

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gtoformula
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Report this Post08-18-2014 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gtoformulaClick Here to Email gtoformulaSend a Private Message to gtoformulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

How do you handle the spare with the battery up front, without putting the spare in the trunk?


If one of the available battery boxes are installed the spare will fit over the battery. Many threads cover this mod. Did one myself. Like how it looks and fits. Big plus not having the battery in the engine bay.
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gtoformula
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Report this Post08-18-2014 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gtoformulaClick Here to Email gtoformulaSend a Private Message to gtoformulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

How do you handle the spare with the battery up front, without putting the spare in the trunk?


I found my thread. Search with "Another Battery Relocation Completed". Step by step on how to do this.
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tshark
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Report this Post08-18-2014 08:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks.
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Patrick
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Report this Post08-19-2014 01:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

How do you handle the spare with the battery up front?


The same way I do with the unmodified Fieros I have... the spare tires go in the basement. It might bite me some day, but I never carry a spare.

However, as gtoformula has mentioned, the spare will actually go over the battery up front when the battery is mounted in the tub. I should mention that there is another location to mount the battery up front, and that's under the passenger side headlights. I don't care for that location myself, but it is another option.

 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

I see the orange creep. Did your friend put in aluminum or steel?


He used steel and tack welded it in, then painted it. It'll last at least as long as the rest of the car.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-19-2014).]

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Report this Post08-19-2014 09:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9:

I think the problem with the battery tray is the acid being washed out when rain gets in the battery. I put a heavy plastic bag over it to keep this from happening.

.


They make a mat to soak up and neutralize the acids.
http://www.trailerlife.com/...ttery-acid-absorber/
http://www.batterymat.com/

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 08-19-2014).]

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NetCam
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Report this Post08-24-2014 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sent an email on the battery mats a few days ago, but so far no reply.
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NetCam
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Report this Post08-25-2014 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Heard back from them and they only sell by the case or in rolls. I've asked them to provide me with re-seller info.
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Report this Post08-26-2014 08:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post08-26-2014 08:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

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If a guy wanted to get real serious he could put a plastic tray under the battery with a small drain hole and a hose to lead the drips of acidy rainwater to the ground without touching metal.
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Report this Post08-26-2014 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sandblast and rubberized undercoating. For a matt, just cut up an old rubber floormat or bedliner. Check all the battery cells if you can to see if theyre full...you could have a small leaking crack or overcharging which will spill battery acid on the tray.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 08-26-2014).]

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Report this Post08-26-2014 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Battery mats are something like $6 from Amazon.

Be sure to clean around your battery with baking soda, annually.
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NetCam
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Report this Post08-26-2014 10:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The battery is brand new. I did have a problem with overcharging on the last motor which led to acid leaking out the top and dripping down the side. I've since replaced the battery and the engine which is why I thought this problem was a thing of the past. Unless I ended up with another bad alternator and/or battery, I don't think that's it.
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Report this Post08-26-2014 10:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

NetCam

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Oh FFS......



[This message has been edited by NetCam (edited 08-26-2014).]

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jaskispyder
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Report this Post08-26-2014 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by NetCam:

Oh FFS......



Have your local auto parts store order one, or call around. I have found them locally.
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NetCam
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Report this Post08-26-2014 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't think they like Canadians........... Maybe I just need a different type of battery.
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NetCam
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Report this Post08-26-2014 10:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK, found one that doesn't want ridiculous shipping charges.....

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Report this Post08-26-2014 01:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The ebay link I posted was 4.95 with 1.99 shipping, I didnt notice you were in Canada tho

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 08-26-2014).]

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