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sc ser2/ sc ser3 what years? by AL87
Started on: 08-11-2014 09:02 PM
Replies: 17 (286 views)
Last post by: AL87 on 08-29-2014 02:53 PM
AL87
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Report this Post08-11-2014 09:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
trying to find a late series 2 motor. im not %100 sure.
but I've read the last series2 motors were available in 2004.

can anyone confirm?
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-12-2014 01:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 3800 Series 2 SC and N/A engines were used thru the 2005 model year. 2006-up model years all 3800s were Series 3.

The Series 3 became available as early as 2004 model year but only in the Grand Prix. In 2005, it also became available in the Lacrosse (L26 N/A version only).

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post08-12-2014 02:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Most people when running a S3 3800 use an adapter plate and then use the S2 cable operated throttle body on it. Most also use a S2 PCM to control the engine also.
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AL87
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Report this Post08-12-2014 02:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

Most people when running a S3 3800 use an adapter plate and then use the S2 cable operated throttle body on it. Most also use a S2 PCM to control the engine also.


this was the main reason I wanted a series2! ^^^ i like the cable operated throttle*** i have to re-gather my resources, ive been out of personal fiero stuff too long. XD
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-12-2014 02:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
While shopping around, you're probably going to find many instances where Series 3 engines are more available and cheaper than comparable Series 2 engines. Like phonedawgz says - just get the TB adapter plate so you can mount your favorite cable-op TB onto a Series 3 engine and call it a day.
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AL87
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Report this Post08-17-2014 11:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i dont believe there is a single reason why I shouldnt go with a series 3, I cant recall for the life of me what has more performance potential in stock form.
I was also asking because i am thinking about getting an 04' pontiac gp gtp with the money ive been saving up, as a nice, newer dd and park the fiero for some much needed small detail tlc.

im dreaming that eventually I'll be able to have a nice sc 3800 in a 4spd fiero, modded just short of needing an intercooler.
anything requiring more hp will just have to be V8'ed
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post08-18-2014 09:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The series II is a less complicated and lower cost swap. With the series III ; add about $300-$400 for a N* TB, adapter plate, 03 PCM ( for autos) and an external MAF. Then use a modified 03 PCM program with the later fueling tables and a suitable MAF curve for the new unit. You will need to tune. The benefit is +20 horsepower.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-18-2014 06:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

The series II is a less complicated and lower cost swap. With the series III ; add about $300-$400 for a N* TB, adapter plate, 03 PCM ( for autos) and an external MAF. Then use a modified 03 PCM program with the later fueling tables and a suitable MAF curve for the new unit. You will need to tune. The benefit is +20 horsepower.



ZZP sells a $99 adapter plate that will allow you to use a Series 2 SC TB on a Series 3 engine. You can get a used complete (with all sensors including the MAF) Series 2 SC throttle body for usually much less than $100.
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E.Furgal
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Report this Post08-19-2014 05:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
or just install the d.b.w. gas pedal..
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Justinbart
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Report this Post08-19-2014 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Or you can make your own adapter plate. Very easy.

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olejoedad
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Report this Post08-19-2014 05:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

The series II is a less complicated and lower cost swap. With the series III ; add about $300-$400 for a N* TB, adapter plate, 03 PCM ( for autos) and an external MAF. Then use a modified 03 PCM program with the later fueling tables and a suitable MAF curve for the new unit. You will need to tune. The benefit is +20 horsepower.



And run it as a series II....

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-20-2014 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:

or just install the d.b.w. gas pedal..


I wouldn't. Doing that will force you to use the Series 3 PCM which isn't very widely or well supported by currently available custom tuning software. Some people have done DBW 3800 Series 3 swaps into Fieros and from what I've heard, there have almost always been issues getting it to work exactly how the car owner wants it to, without certain drivability issues (due to limitations in the available custom tuning software).
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AL87
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Report this Post08-21-2014 08:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
... 20hp can be had from other places... I never leave anything stock if I tare it down and rebuild it...
so a pulley, cam, port and polish, and other little detail work will compensate for that 20hp difference...
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IROCTAFIERO
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Report this Post08-21-2014 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IROCTAFIEROSend a Private Message to IROCTAFIEROEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There's a few more differences than 20 hp.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post08-21-2014 11:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


ZZP sells a $99 adapter plate that will allow you to use a Series 2 SC TB on a Series 3 engine. You can get a used complete (with all sensors including the MAF) Series 2 SC throttle body for usually much less than $100.


True and less complicated than trying to adapt the N* and a new MAF but I hardly ever see 3800SC series TB's at the yards. They probably are available but perhaps scarce?
Perhaps a third alternative is to use the plentiful N* TB with the inline external MAF used on the 07 series III engine. I am working on using such an application right now but I have not been able to find an 07 series III engine MAF table so I have no idea as yet whether or this MAF table is the same as on the built in series II MAF's. I can tell you that changing to a N* TB and adding a new LS1 MAF ( I use the SLP high flow unit), does require some serious tuning work with a wideband.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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cam-a-lot
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Report this Post08-23-2014 07:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cam-a-lotSend a Private Message to cam-a-lotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Whatever happened to the two dozen other engine swap/performance upgrade swaps you claimed you were going to do? Did any of them become reality?

[This message has been edited by cam-a-lot (edited 08-24-2014).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post08-23-2014 07:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by AL87:

... 20hp can be had from other places... I never leave anything stock if I tare it down and rebuild it...
so a pulley, cam, port and polish, and other little detail work will compensate for that 20hp difference...


Why would you tear it down and rebuild a 3800?
Reseal the engine, maybe a cam, but leave the bottom end and heads alone.....

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AL87
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Report this Post08-29-2014 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


Why would you tear it down and rebuild a 3800?
Reseal the engine, maybe a cam, but leave the bottom end and heads alone.....


not a literal term to replace all of the internals with new.
I'd replace the bearings, check clearance, re-ring, basic stuff.
of course a cam, and 3" pulley. and tune.

has anyone tried to put in bigger valves? or lighter valvetrain?
no porting the heads?
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