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1986 iron duke ring job by newfiejeff
Started on: 05-20-2014 06:47 AM
Replies: 25 (401 views)
Last post by: newfiejeff on 06-04-2014 05:58 PM
newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-20-2014 06:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
1986 2m4
Hi all, my old Iron Duke is burning oil even though the sparks are perfect clean. The engine got about 187,000klms on it.
I guess I will have to ring the pistons and I know the valve stem oil seals are gone.
So what is a must in doing the engine?
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Gall757
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Report this Post05-20-2014 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check the head for cracks and warps. Maybe a valve job while it is off?
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TopNotch
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Report this Post05-20-2014 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
187,000 kilometers is way too soon for a duke to be burning oil if it was cared for properly. I rebuilt my 88 duke at 200,000 miles (320,000 kilometers), and even then, it wasn't burning oil. So inspect everything. Something has to be wrong somewhere.
And yes, the heads do tend to crack on dukes. Mine had a very small crack in it. I replaced it with a later model duke head (better breathing).
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-20-2014 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What else could it be?
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TONY_C
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Report this Post05-20-2014 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TONY_CSend a Private Message to TONY_CEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check for oil in the air cleaner. If it's the rings you will have excessive blow-by. Another way to tell is while the engine is running remove the oil fill cap and put your hand over the opening. Do you feel air blowing out?
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-20-2014 01:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Air cleaner is clean as a whistle.
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TONY_C
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Report this Post05-20-2014 02:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TONY_CSend a Private Message to TONY_CEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's probably not the rings then. does it burn more oil visibly upon start up?
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-20-2014 06:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just started it up and there is blow by from the oil cap. So I guess the rings then?
Also there was no blue smoke like sometimes that it does and let it idle for 10 minutes or so and no sign of blue smoke. Probably when it's warmed up and drove down the road it will start to burn. But I did see blue smoke when I start it up earlier the week.

[This message has been edited by newfiejeff (edited 05-20-2014).]

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Csjag
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Report this Post05-20-2014 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can do the valve stem seals with just the valve cover off. If you can have someone follow you while you drive and see if they see blue smoke at any time. Have you checked the PCV valve?
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-20-2014 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A buddy of mine was behind me and he told me that when the strain was on it was blue smoke, I am thinking maybe black smoke as she is not ideal or I THINK she could be better on gas. Will check Thursday night as I had a side job tonight and tomorrow night.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post05-21-2014 01:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
after it's warmed up , take it for a ride (someone following you) run it through the 1st 2 gears (foot to the floor. then let off the gas and slowly come to a stop.) Does it smoke when you are Accelerating ? OR when you are Letting Off the Pedal ? ON Pedal = Rings, OFF Pedal = Valve Seals. You Said you KNOW the seals are gone, so..... why not just do them first, you don't even need to pull the head, only the valve cover.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post05-21-2014 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Lou6t4gto

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after it's warmed up , take it for a ride (someone following you) run it through the 1st 2 gears (foot to the floor). then let off the gas and slowly come to a stop.) Does it smoke when you are Accelerating ? OR when you are Letting Off the Pedal slowing down (not braking)? ON Pedal = Rings, OFF Pedal = Valve Seals. You Said you KNOW the seals are gone, so..... why not just do them first, you don't even need to pull the head, only the valve cover.
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-21-2014 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So if the valve seals are gone will the car smoke all the time or just on start up or off on pedal? I know stupid question..lol
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Report this Post05-21-2014 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Blue smoke on startup but not after idling for a few minutes is a sure sign of bad valve seals but like Lou said its a cheap and easy thing to fix.
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Neils88
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Report this Post05-21-2014 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have you done a wet/dry compression test?
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-24-2014 11:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
UPDATE!!
Just done a compression test and the 3 cylinders closest to the passenger side was aprox 150 +/- 5 pounds, the one closest to the thermostat was around 90 and then I put a drop of oil in and got it up to around 100.
I didn't bother doing a wet test on the others as they were so high.

Any ideas/suggestions now?
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post05-24-2014 02:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
unless you "Feel like doing a lot of work", just install the new valve seals and see what happens !
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post05-24-2014 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Lou6t4gto

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if all it came up was 10psi, sounds more like a bad Valve. how many times did the engine turn over for the wet test ? did you put in a "Few drops" OR a Squirt ?
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-25-2014 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Poured a little and turned it a nice few cranks. I am going to put the compressed air on it a little later.
Will keep you posted!!
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Report this Post05-25-2014 02:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
when you do the "compressed Air", be careful, Make sure that piston that you are putting the air into IS AT THE BOTTOM ! (if it's at the top, the compressed air WILL Spin The Engine Over.
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-25-2014 05:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Update
Just tried another compression tester as mine never went back to 0 so I used to subtract that off the reading. Anyways, tried another one all cylinders are around 125 to 135. So that looks good. When you race the car over you get a little blue smoke. Would that be rings or just that I probably dont have any valve stem oil seals left?
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post06-03-2014 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just put new seals in it, took it for a short ride down the road.
When I race the car over you can see a light blue smoke, so I guess the new valve stem seals didn't do the trick on that only when I start it up.

I will have to ring the car this winter.
Anyone got some awesome tips on this...lol?
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Report this Post06-03-2014 04:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How many quarts are you losing in how many miles? What weight of oil are you using. Also make sure your PCV system is good. Also are you sure you dont have any leaks, valvevcover is notorious.
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post06-03-2014 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well all good questions. I am going to drive it the summer and see how it goes. I will check it every couple of days and see what it is going through and report back.
I am using 10W30.
No leaks as of writing this, you know with the old dukes

[This message has been edited by newfiejeff (edited 06-04-2014).]

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newfiejeff
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Report this Post06-04-2014 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Update!
PCV valve is not working.
Also when I put the valve stem seals in I put the umbrella type on the intake along with the o-ring. I just put the o-ring on the exhaust. The machine shop gave me white plastic umbrella type for the exhaust, but I didn't use them as they didn't fit over. I was told later they just ride up and down on the valves, just shielding oil away from the valves.
Would the missing exhaust umbrella's cause it? There was none there when I took it apart.

All suggestions welcome
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post06-04-2014 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

newfiejeff

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Also, got a slight miss, you can hear and see it in the exhaust. Going along the road you can feel but hardly noticeable, not sure if this is related or not.
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