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I found a 3800 SC II but would like some experts opinion first by Adjustso3
Started on: 05-17-2014 02:48 AM
Replies: 22 (569 views)
Last post by: Adjustso3 on 06-24-2014 12:53 PM
Adjustso3
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Report this Post05-17-2014 02:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok guys a little info on which Fiero I have. I have an 84 Indy in decent shape with no A/C and a 4 speed manual. I've read that the 3800 SC will bolt right up to my 4 speed and can use my stock axels. The Iron Duke has about 116,000 miles on it but runs great with no leakes or puff blue smoke. It's just that it's so slow my girlfriend leaves me in the dust with her Montana mini van. Ok now my questions to the guys who know these 3800 SC II Engines. I've found one from a guy who has it on the floor of his garage with the HD AUTO trans, harness and PCM. It's a 1998 that came out of a Bonneville SSEI. It has 150,000 miles on it. He was going to put it into a MR2 but decided to turbo it instead. He says he bought it from a guy who said it ran well but the back of the car was destroyed. He never heard it run and with it being on the floor of his garage neither can I. He swears up and down the engine ran and he was only gonna do a fluid change if it was installed in his car. I'm pretty handy around cars and want to take my time and do everything nice and neat. He did want $500 for it but I offered him $400 and after a short pause he said ok. What do you guys think ? Should I take a chance on it ? I just had back surgery and want to just start gathering parts for when I'm healthy and ready to start the swap. Would you guys install the engine as is or would you rebuild some things before stuffing the cradle up in place. Of course not being able to work yet means money is tight for now but I don't have a problem saving the cash and buying things a little at a time. I don't have the pass key if it's needed for this engine. I'm not sure if I'd like to do the harness myself or not depending if there's a step by step on how to do it. I'd like to know which manuals to purchase because I have plenty of time to do some reading. The problem I have is if I find a car with a 3800 SC I can't pull it myself because of my bad back and having someone do it will add a cost I'd like to avoid if possible. What do you guys think about my 4 speed ? Good idea or not ? I really don't want an automatic. I've never done an engine swap before but can follow instructions and love working on cars. I also want a stock looking exhaust and would like the Indy to appear stock until the whine of the supercharger is heard. One last question, does somebody make a gear drive unit to replace the timing chain or should I just keep that part stock. I also read somewhere about using a pully from another engine ( I think it was a 3.4 ) to increase the horsepower. Is this true ? Ok guys, please point me in the right direction and let me know if I should grab this motor or look somewhere else. I can't afford a new one at this time. If any of you guys have been on comp you'll know exactly what I mean. Thanks for reading my little novel but I wanted to include as much info as possible. Many thanks in advance.
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Purple86GT
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Report this Post05-17-2014 06:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anytime you buy an engine that can't be run, you are taking a gamble.

That being said, the 3800 is a very reliable engine with very few issues. I would try turning it by hand (21mm socket?) and see how that feels.

People on here will tell you to tear it apart, rebuild it, change every gasket etc... they would be right but they also think money grows on trees. I would say run it as is with new oil. Do an oil change after a short run (few hundred miles) and examine the oil for signs of trouble. Also keep an eye out for leaks.

As for the brackets.. All you need if you are keeping the 4spd is the 3800 engine mount.. I would recommend you change the trans to auto or getrag speed. Even better is the F23 but that one can be a pain to install... Also change your motor and trans mounts for new ones. Rubber or poly, your call.

For the wiring harness, I'm doing my own. I you don't feel comfortable with that, I recommend FIEROFLYER on here. He makes a good harness and includes the computer pre-flashed for your needs.

Don't do the pulley yet.. Get the engine working good first. Then you can experiment with smaller pulleys.

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olejoedad
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Report this Post05-17-2014 07:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree with Purple86GT, but would add this......KEEP THE INDY STOCK!

Find another Fiero, preferably later than an 84, and modify it. Don't destroy the Indy.
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uhlanstan
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Report this Post05-17-2014 10:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for uhlanstanClick Here to Email uhlanstanSend a Private Message to uhlanstanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
normally if you can turn the engine over using a breaker bar & socket on the crank shaft nut,,you have an engine that will run !
pull the spark plugs,, eyeball each cylinder with bright lite & turn the engine over,it is always a gamble,..
Checking out the combustion chamber interior & bore give you some indication of condition
most engine swaps are never completed ..if you have back problems think seriously about if you have the resolve to finish this !! be realistic .. there is a reason so many engines sit in garages around the country for years ..Plan for a year
..the 4 speed automatic is a POS that kept many transmission repair shops open into the year 2000, & many engine swapers have had 90,s GM 4 speed auto tranny problems, chances are the engine is O.K but check !! & hopefully the tranny is to
the Bonneville has the ideal transmission ratio 3.06
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MulletproofMonk
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Report this Post05-17-2014 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Only think I would say as far as gaskets go, make sure to do the LIM (lower intake manifold) gasket with the newer aluminum gasket. You dont want the original plastic one sucked down into the engine.

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread
Modified stock air canister and base to 3.5 inch for 3800na

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

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Adjustso3
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Report this Post05-17-2014 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks guys for all the advise. First I don't know if I'll be destroying the Imdy or making it what it should of been. As far as the trans on the 3800 I plan on selling it cheap because I was gonna use the 4 speed manual that's in the Indy. I thought all the mounts should be changed to poly and use some "kit". I think I read that over on west coast fieros. Where do you suggest I get a flywheel? I've read it has to be machined and balanced. I agree that I can't do very much now with my back so bad now but hope some day it will be much better. For now id like to read more and start gathering parts because it's gonna take a while for that anyway because I don't own a money tree but don't want to do things half assed. What are the best manuals to purchase for this swap to get me more familiar with what I need to do. I think I'm gonna have the harness done. Id love to do it myself but right now am a bit unsure of myself. Once again thanks for all the advise. I really appreciate it
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Report this Post05-17-2014 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 84 tranny case is very weak and will not be up to handling the 3800. Find a 4 speed from an 85 or 86 Fiero and use it.
Check the RPO code sheet on the left front fender well, the MY8 tranny is the 3.32 ratio, the M19 code is for the more common 4.10 ratio. Neither are a good choice for the 3800S/C.
If you have the MY8 I will buy it from you and supply an M17 four speed which is the one you want. The case is much stronger and the final drive is 3.65.
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post05-17-2014 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Funny, I just started a post about guidance with my 3800sc swap into my 4 spd.
I live on Long Island and I am now in Ohio picking up the motor. ($300)
Same situation. Was in a bonneville seei has 110k on it . And yes , I'm taking a gamble because I cannot hear it run and I drove 8 hours to come here to pick it up.

------------------
===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
Where driving hard is SOP.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keep it 'mostly' that way. That is until I can find a 3800sc to swap into it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
The "DuetLorean"
VIN #5835
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Carbed and loving it! (Peugot 604 manifold) ---"Sorry purists"

[This message has been edited by Lou and Blue (edited 05-17-2014).]

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Jason88Notchie
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Report this Post05-17-2014 06:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

I agree with Purple86GT, but would add this......KEEP THE INDY STOCK!

Find another Fiero, preferably later than an 84, and modify it. Don't destroy the Indy.


Bub, I second this opinion. If the Indy runs good, restore it to original as possible. To many people get into these things and let a good car rot. Believe me. You'll have enough on your plate making the Indy into a delight once again.

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Adjustso3
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Report this Post05-17-2014 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You guys are great group. It's the M19. I just talked it over with my girl and she said just buy another fiero then ! I guess I'm gonna finish the Indy and keep her stock. The clutch pedal felt like it was welded to the floor. I looked at everything and all seemed fine but the slave cylinder looked like it was extended out too far. I unbolted the slave and the pedal feels fine. I just have to replace the slave and bleed. Hopefully the tranny is ok. And before somebody chimes in about a bent pedal it looks fine. I just hope it was just a bad slave cylinder. Thanks again guys. Hopefully I'll find a fiero with a bad motor. Do you guys think I should still pick up the 3800 SC II with harness and ECM with 150,000 miles for $400 ?
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post05-18-2014 12:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, get it , I just paid $300 for mine and had to drive 16 hours round trip for it. That's like $150 in gas and tolls, so $400 is a good price.

------------------
===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
Where driving hard is SOP.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keep it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
The "DuetLorean"
VIN #5835
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Carbed and loving it! (Peugot 604 manifold) ---"Sorry purists"

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MulletproofMonk
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Report this Post05-18-2014 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not sure why that double posted.

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread
Modified stock air canister and base to 3.5 inch for 3800na

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

[This message has been edited by MulletproofMonk (edited 05-18-2014).]

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Adjustso3
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Report this Post05-18-2014 11:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm gonna try to go tomorrow to see if the crank spins and engine isn't locked up. Does anybody 100% sure the size of the socket I'm gonna need ? I should remove the spark plugs too right ? I don't think I'll be able to spin the crank if there not out ! It's from a 98 Pontiac Bonneville SSEI thanks guys.
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Adjustso3
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Report this Post05-25-2014 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok guys, I'm a little worried about that 3800 SC with 150,000 miles on it that came with the harness and the PCM. That one is only about 20 minutes away. I've found another one from a 2005 Impala SS. It's already out of the car and has only 51,000 miles on it. He wants $800 for it but does not have the harness or the PCM. What are my options guys ? What do you think ? Yet another motor that I can't hear run ! I can't remember where I read it but somewhere, somebody sells the harness all done and supply's the PCM. Ive decided to leave my Indy stock and look for a 86 or newer GT. Of course I want everything but no money to do it. I'd just like to find the engine first and throw some new gaskets in it and paint it. Basically have it all ready sitting on a stand. Sooner or later I'll find the Fiero for the 3800 SC. This 2005 engine is a 6 hour drive away though ! Is this engine to new ? What years of this engine should I be looking for ?
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Report this Post05-25-2014 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87FieroSportSend a Private Message to 87FieroSportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had the same deal you have now.

I thought - 51K miles, not a clue if it runs. Still doing gaskets. The PCM/Harness just cost more (There is a core-charge when buying pre-made harnesses too for the 3800 harness)

Or 150K miles, tear it down, simple gaskets. Gives me a chance to clean it and all. Comes with harness, PCM (and Body harness, cradle, PS rack, ect.)

$800 + Cores
$400, No cores.

You're doing the same amount of work either way (I'd do it. It takes 3 hours to strip a 3800 to the block. I just did it.)
You also open up options to re-mount certain things to clean up the install.

Series 3 is a little more work if you were wiring it yourself, and such.
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Adjustso3
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Report this Post05-26-2014 12:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the advise. It's just the mileage I'm worried about. What range of years 3800 SC should I be looking for ? I really wish there was a step by step harness book. I love turning wrenches and doing wiring but of course just a little Leary that I'll mess something up and I want a neat and clean engine bay. If you are doing your own harness don't you have to have the PCM flashed ? Once again thanks for all the help.
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Report this Post05-26-2014 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 87FieroSportSend a Private Message to 87FieroSportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Remember this... It's not about the mileage. It's about how the P.O took care of it.

My 1999 Grand Prix GXP (GTP) motor has 150K miles on it, leaked only a little under the valve cover.
I stripped it down the other day in a few hours, only the find that it was flawless inside.

The front exhaust was cracked in half under the shield, but yet not one bolt broke during disassembly (With no air tools.)

But my motor's P.O cared about his 3800.
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Report this Post05-26-2014 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RotrexFieroClick Here to visit RotrexFiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to RotrexFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mine had around 80k on it and it runs great. No leaks at all, and full boost. These engines are tough. They just seem to last forever and are very powerful. They are torque monsters.
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Report this Post05-26-2014 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can check an engine that is not running with a cylinder leakdown test that will indicate the condition of the cylinders but not the bottom end. I'd say that this will yield a good used engine about 80% of the time.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Adjustso3
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Report this Post05-27-2014 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did a search but could not find an answer. What year of the 3800 SC should I be looking for ?
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Adjustso3
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Report this Post06-10-2014 04:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey guys I finally found and bought a 3800SC ! The owner said it ran great but was totaled when hit in the rear end. It has about 112,000 miles on it . The oil looked pretty clean and the crank spun with little effort. The supercharger has no play. The engine came with everything minus the tranny. Only problem is he cut the wires from the harness right at the air box where the PCM sits ! You guys talked me out of putting it in my Indy and finding another manual Fiero hopefully with the Getrag. I want to concentrate on the engine first by degreasing and replacing gaskets. What would you guys do ? I'd like a little more HP than stock. I'm gonna replace almost all the gaskets a little at a time. What do you think I should do to the heads ? Is there any supplier you guys deal with for the gasket set. Is there a favorite engine manual you guys prefer ? The engine is from a 2001 Regal. I see the valve covers are plastic. Should I change them if metal ones are available. I hope Fieroflyer is going to be willing to do my harness for me. I would really love to do it myself but I'm really unsure what goes to where and why. I've got a lot of reading and learning to do. Where do you guys recommend I purchase the flywheel, mounts and brackets I'm going to need ? As you can see I'm like a little kid again and really excited ! This is awesome because it's been a long time I've felt this way after going through a horrible divorce and having back surgery. Thanks for all the help once again. Many thanks in advance.
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Adjustso3
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Report this Post06-13-2014 12:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any ideas ?
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Adjustso3
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Report this Post06-24-2014 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok guys, I've got my engine and I'm picking up a 1987 GT with a bad motor. It has the 5 speed Getrag in it. What clutch should I buy and where should I get it ? Where should I get the flywheel ? I'm gonna have to have the harness done because I can't find a step by step how to and a little Leary of doing it myself. I also need the PCM flashed. Where do you guys suggest I purchase the poly mounts, lower alternator bracket, etc ?
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