I have a unique problem that needs astory before asking for help. Several years ago, i imported a Canadian F40 / Fiero replica to Mazatlan, Mexico. As the car had real Ferrari F40 Canadian registration, they wanted to tax me as a real F40 ( way more than I paid for the car!) It sat stalled for 3 years at no man's land at the border, as I repeatedly tried to find a sympathetic Mexican customs official. Without details, i eventually made it happen by attaching the car to my then mexican immigration status , and have been working on it/ driving it for the past 3 years. Now the problem: Mexico has changed all our immigration statuses here, and foreign plated cars are no longer legal. On a suggestion, i bought a legal 1986 Mexican fiero ( rare as they were never sold here) , and am going to switch the vin plates over to my car. They still actually manufacture and sell the F40 body for fieros in Mexico city. Here is the help needed: where are all the "hidden" VIN plates on a fiero. and, do you need to remove the windshield to remove the one on the dash? If so, i can't find any how to on this anywhere. thanks in advance! SP
ok.. I'm from Canada.... there is 100% NO WAY a Fiero would be registered as a Ferrari F40... No way, no how. the MTO does not even look at the car, the vin is decoded by a computer... The vin would come up as a Pontiac Fiero... Try again but with a different story....
Can you please let me know your home address and where you keep the keys to your Fiero. Please let it be in better condition than mine, so I can just swap the vin tags.
...also, can I have your bank account number & SS# just for good measure.
I agree no way it should have been registered as a real F40. And what are these F40 Mexican kits? Picture please. Beyond all that, the obvious vin is under the windshield, also there’s one attached to the supports under the dash. I believe if you remove the driver’s side speaker cover and speaker you will see it. Then there’s the vin sticker on all the original body panels but being a kit who knows what’s what.
[This message has been edited by DLCLK87GT (edited 05-16-2014).]
I can assure you this car was registered in Canada as an F 40 Ferrari. it was built in Quebec in 1996, and assigned a QSSA vin number; neither Ferrari nor Fiero. The car was then stolen and burnt, and sold to a Polish guy in Edmonton (my home town) who spent three years and lots of money restoring it. He was driving it with .Alberta plates and registration. His transfer to Europe prompted putting the car on "Lamborghini Replica. Com" where I found it and purchased it. There was still the ad and picture of the car there when i last looked under "SOLD" I paid $3000 to have it shipped to the Mexican border where all the BS started. it was given Arizona title and matching plate (don't ask) to get it into Mexico on my FM3 immigration status. I am not good at posting procedures on pictures, but have lots and would gladly send some by email to anyone who provides an email address. the purchase of a second 86 fiero ( the chassis on the Ferrari is 86) came about based on reliable info provided by a Federal cop here on what i could do. so back to my originl questions. Can anyone help????
Beyond all that, the obvious vin is under the windshield, also there’s one attached to the supports under the dash. I believe if you remove the driver’s side speaker cover and speaker you will see it. Then there’s the vin sticker on all the original body panels but being a kit who knows what’s what.
I think this ^^^^ should have answered your answer, however the one under the windshield should be your only concern because there is probably nothing "Fiero" left on the car that would have any vin numbers.
I would have to say (atleast in the states) that this would be considered illegal, but it sounds like a disaster to begin with. Are you going to put the Ferrari numbers back on the fiero and sell that too!? haha
to my knowledge, there is a vin sticker on every exterior body panel... and two metal vin plates, the one that is visible from the outside of the windshield, and the one mounted onto the chassis, right under the front left speaker...
NOW are you asking about any actually hidden vin #'s where one is required to cut away part of the chassis to find? because that'll draw attention...
There are no original body panels left on the car,. So i am assuming I DO have to remove the windshield to get the one off the dash, or can i remove the dash to do it. I am aware of the fact this would NOT be done in Canada or the US, but have lived in Mexico for 21 years, and know how things get accomplished here. It was creativity, that got the car down here in the first place after three years of desperate attempts every way possible. It was legal here until this new immigration thing came up; which has forced thousands of expat Canadians and Americans to drive their now illegal cars to the border, and if they are 8 years or newer, pay outrageous tax to legally reimport them; or, if older than 8 years, leave them up there- they cannot come back. I probably now have $35,000 US into this car, and am not about to give up yet. thanks for your comments, and again, if anyone wishes to see pictures ( including the Canadian assigned vin on the dash and doorpost) I would be happy to email them. i am at viresorts.steve.parlee@gmail.com
you have to remove the widshied to get at that one, and you have to at least remove the front left speaker for the other metal one...
as for any other hidden vin # locations that may be stamped on the insde of the layered chassis metal; only the manufacturer and law enforcement would know about those...
I have a unique problem that needs astory before asking for help. Several years ago, i imported a Canadian F40 / Fiero replica to Mazatlan, Mexico. As the car had real Ferrari F40 Canadian registration, they wanted to tax me as a real F40 ( way more than I paid for the car!) SP
Correct me if I'm wrong and do not know about how Canada titles their cars. But if it was a rebody, the VIN comes from the manufacturer. A Fiero is a Fiero. Should still have the Fiero VIN. I can't imagine Canada would just change the VIN to call it a Ferrari. Aren't Mera's still a Fiero? So a long story short. What makes this car a Fiero in any way?
Ok, for all you doubters: assigned Quebec vin number that is a) on the car, b) on the legal Alberta registration certificate i have in my possession, c) on the original Quebec registration when the car was transformed from a 1986 Fiero to a 1996 Ferrari F40: 2SSAQM19602140055. i have seen a 2SSAQM vin number on a 308 conversion for sale on E Bay a year or so ago. That was also a car done in Quebec. Here in Mexico, where 100 pesos ( about $10) solves most traffic violations at the point of dealing with the cop on the street, you get creative to solve problems. One of the main reasons for leaving a lucrative real estate career in Ontario Canada years ago and moving to Mexico, was the lack of government intervention in my daily life. I never regretted the decision. Life is pretty simple here, albeit not perfect. i appear to have unleashed a **** storm of judgemental opnions on what i am attempting here. Thankyou to those that answered my questions. I have relied on this forum repeatedly for good information on my REBODIED 1986 Fiero, that would have been a whole lot simpler to have here, had the original builder left the original vin on it. I was told it had more value with the designation and registration as an F40 when I bought it. Little did I know then..... S
Ok, for all you doubters: assigned Quebec vin number that is a) on the car, b) on the legal Alberta registration certificate i have in my possession, c) on the original Quebec registration when the car was transformed from a 1986 Fiero to a 1996 Ferrari F40: 2SSAQM19602140055. i have seen a 2SSAQM vin number on a 308 conversion for sale on E Bay a year or so ago. That was also a car done in Quebec. Here in Mexico, where 100 pesos ( about $10) solves most traffic violations at the point of dealing with the cop on the street, you get creative to solve problems. One of the main reasons for leaving a lucrative real estate career in Ontario Canada years ago and moving to Mexico, was the lack of government intervention in my daily life. I never regretted the decision. Life is pretty simple here, albeit not perfect. i appear to have unleashed a **** storm of judgemental opnions on what i am attempting here. Thankyou to those that answered my questions. I have relied on this forum repeatedly for good information on my REBODIED 1986 Fiero, that would have been a whole lot simpler to have here, had the original builder left the original vin on it. I was told it had more value with the designation and registration as an F40 when I bought it. Little did I know then..... S
Please do post pictures of the VIN plate here so we can see what you are talking about. In ALL of Canada (including Quebec) the chassis determines the VIN and car make / model. You can have every part of a Ferrari bolted on to a Fiero frame and it's still a Fiero VIN.. Besides, Ferrari would have a legal $hit fit if anyone was switching Fiero VINs to Ferrari VINs.
I don't know about Mexico, but up here, tampering with a VIN never ends well..
Please do post pictures of the VIN plate here so we can see what you are talking about. In ALL of Canada (including Quebec) the chassis determines the VIN and car make / model. You can have every part of a Ferrari bolted on to a Fiero frame and it's still a Fiero VIN.. Besides, Ferrari would have a legal $hit fit if anyone was switching Fiero VINs to Ferrari VINs.
I don't know about Mexico, but up here, tampering with a VIN never ends well..
Nor in the US, it will cause the loss of your vehicle and up to 10yrs. Learned that the hard way.
My GT40 kit was on a VW pan. It was originally built in Ca with a 'manufactured' state VIN plate on the door jam. I guess this is what is done on kit assembled cars there. The title said 'manufactured vehicle', meaning homebuilt. When I transferred it to an Ohio title, it was changed to Ford GT40. I didnt do it to recreate a real one as anyone buying it would know it wasnt. Simply to describe the car accurately enough to please the cops as Ohio did not have any kind of homebuilt type of label to put on it. It did not go by what the chassis or drivetrain were, though in most cases thats true. My Ferrari and Lambo kits, both on Fiero chassis, were titled as Fieros. If Ohio had a homemade type distinction, I could have them titled as Ferrari or Lambo though. Dont look up the current laws to try and correct me, this was 10 years ago, and may have changed since.
Now, as to your problem putting another VIN plate on it. I can only speak about Ohio, but the Highway Patrol inspection offices have books that tell them all the secret places there are hidden VIN numbers. Here they will not tell you for obvious reasons. Whenever I built a car or rebuilt a salvage total, they kept the car for about an hour for the 'inspection'. Pretty much just looked at general roadworthiness and checked all the hidden VINs. I rebuilt a Suburban and painted it all over. On the inspection they told me one door had been replaced and there was no paperwork to support where that door came from. I had to throw that one away and buy another used door with an invoice listing the VIN number of the vehicle it was removed from to get it approved.
" I was told it had more value with the designation and registration as an F40 when I bought it"
This was a lie to get you to buy it. A kit car is just worth what the kit car is, unless you try to rip someone off by making them think its real. To someone with knowedge, they will know its a kit. I could have mounted a Chevy emblem on my GT40 and titled it as a Corvette if Id wanted.
Well, it is Mexico where just about nothing is really illegal. 1/2 the police cars there were stolen in the US, lol. Slip the guy $50 to register it as is...
I obviously made a huge mistake here in posting this, and have learned a valuable lesson: ask a simple question, hopefully get a simple answer.I have relied on this forum for several years to help me through some Fiero problems, and have , for the most part, found responders to be very helpful. For those of you who tried to help, I am eternally grateful. I was not looking for a lecture on morals, or legal workings on anything Canadian, or American, in an environment that is NOT here, where everything is different. Come live in this country for more than a two week vacation, and you will find out the difference. Is it better or worse than where you're from? I can't say for each of you, but it is what it is. It would appear that even though the car WAS legal under the vin I have provided in Canada both in Alberta and Quebec while driven there, ( and yes I DO have carfax supporting this,) i guess all the "hidden original vins must still be on the car somewhere, and it survived most of its life driving on the streets in Canada in spite of that threat. Again, in the future, I will limit my requests to specific Fiero issues without unnecessary other details. S
I'm in Durango Mexico right now on business, and the vast majority of cars here are obviously stolen from the US. Maybe 1/4 are made for the Mexican market. Just this morning, a car next to us on the way to work got T-boned, and both cars just drove off.
Does anyone even enforce traffic laws in Mexico? Does anyone even care down here IF the car is registered?
If I understand correctly it has been issued a new title and vin and some how the PO had it listed as an F40, I know a lot here does not understand how that could happen but I had a fiberfab avenger with full custom chassis that got issued a vin and title as 1976 fiberfab avenger, never said anything about custom built kit , manufactured vehicle , re-body or Vw. Only real solid option would be swap the body interior etc over to the 86 legal fiero...
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87GTseries 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft) (series II swap in progress) 85GT Northstar/ 4t80e 86GT 3800 n/a---sold Northstar Rebuild
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Now, as to your problem putting another VIN plate on it. I can only speak about Ohio, but the Highway Patrol inspection offices have books that tell them all the secret places there are hidden VIN numbers. Here they will not tell you for obvious reasons. Whenever I built a car or rebuilt a salvage total, they kept the car for about an hour for the 'inspection'. Pretty much just looked at general roadworthiness and checked all the hidden VINs. I rebuilt a Suburban and painted it all over. On the inspection they told me one door had been replaced and there was no paperwork to support where that door came from. I had to throw that one away and buy another used door with an invoice listing the VIN number of the vehicle it was removed from to get it approved.
Ohio Highway Patrol is tough to deal with. They want a receipt with the VIN number from the car that the part came from and prefer it be from a junkyard. They are so hard to deal with sometimes...
My Camry got blasted by hail and I was turning it into an Ohio salvage rebuilt title. There was a Mexican guy with a pretty nice Mustang. He was there an hour before me and they kept coming in and asking him questions about the car. He kept saying "If you just let me drive the car over to the shop, I can get them to write a receipt." They kept telling him that the phone number was disconnected and they couldn't find a shop under the name he had on the receipts. At one point he opened the door to the shop and the cops drew guns on him and told him to "Shut the F*ing Door!". From the quick look I got through the door, they had the front panels off the car and it looked like they were pulling the motor. Either the guy had stolen parts or drugs... Was he lying or did some shop screw him? Who knows. When they called my name to get MY car, I got out of there pretty fast.
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Originally posted by stevep914:
I obviously made a huge mistake here in posting this, and have learned a valuable lesson: ask a simple question, hopefully get a simple answer.I have relied on this forum for several years to help me through some Fiero problems, and have , for the most part, found responders to be very helpful. For those of you who tried to help, I am eternally grateful. I was not looking for a lecture on morals, or legal workings on anything Canadian, or American, in an environment that is NOT here, where everything is different. Come live in this country for more than a two week vacation, and you will find out the difference. Is it better or worse than where you're from? I can't say for each of you, but it is what it is. It would appear that even though the car WAS legal under the vin I have provided in Canada both in Alberta and Quebec while driven there, ( and yes I DO have carfax supporting this,) i guess all the "hidden original vins must still be on the car somewhere, and it survived most of its life driving on the streets in Canada in spite of that threat. Again, in the future, I will limit my requests to specific Fiero issues without unnecessary other details. S
Steve, I see that you probably have at least a couple issues here... and I can see why people probably don't want to answer them. I will ignore the Fiero being title as an F40 because I don't know anything about it...
The issue that you have is your VIN tags. IF your car is sitting on the United States side of the border, it is illegal for you to swap the VIN plates. I don't think that you will find anyone this side of the border that is willing to help you with that. Good luck finding a shop to do it based on the fines, prison time and the fact that the US is going to take your car.
It is one thing to be sitting at a table and ask someone the questions you are asking, but you have detailed what you are intending to do... and posting it on a public forum that can easily be searched... That's a bad idea.
As someone said, your only LEGAL option if the car is in the US is to take the F40 body off the car and move it over to the Fiero...
I wish you the best of luck getting it resolved, but if you only paid $3,000 for it and have paid $30,000+ on it already... It sounds like it is more trouble than it is worth. Be careful of "throwing good money after bad".
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
Steve as you can see a lot of people are willing to help. But as you said you are in an unique situation. Perhaps you got had in Canada when you bought the car. You seem very level headed and sincere. I really wish you the best. Unfortunately probably your best out for this is pay the tax. That does suck, because governments, not just Mexico but in the US as well is like the mofia. All they want to do is steel your money for "protection". Steve I wish you well.
As someone said, your only LEGAL option if the car is in the US is to take the F40 body off the car and move it over to the Fiero...
+1
You think you have trouble explaining things now, just wait till you swap VIN's with yet another vehicle. A police officer might not be so sympathetic.
The fine folks at Ferrari are undoubtedly not amused.
BTW a VIN is supposed to be unique and attached to a specific vehicle. If you have a Ferrari VIN it's either entirely fictional or it would be interesting to know the story of the Ferrari it was attached to.
Mullet, the guy you saw with the Mustang would have thrown up all kinds of red flags to the HP. No reciepts, non working number, unknown company name and Mexican. They prob at least suspected stolen parts (himself or chop shop), and possibly drugs. Ive done a few and the door issue was the only one I ran into myself.
If I understand correctly it has been issued a new title and vin and some how the PO had it listed as an F40, I know a lot here does not understand how that could happen but I had a fiberfab avenger with full custom chassis that got issued a vin and title as 1976 fiberfab avenger, never said anything about custom built kit , manufactured vehicle , re-body or Vw. Only real solid option would be swap the body interior etc over to the 86 legal fiero...
You just have to know, every state regards kit cars completely differently. Here they cant even figure out a tow dolly. One cop will tell you it has to have tags and the next one tells you it dont. I dont have mine tagged because a Sheriff friend told me years ago its supposed to be tagged if towed empty, but dont need it with a tagged vehicle on it. Ive never gotten stopped empty or loaded in 25 years. I dont even know what the up to date law says.
For all with positive comments, a final thanks! A final clarification: the car has been LEGALLY imported here in Mexico as of 4 years ago, under the then proper procedure, and I have been driving it in Mazatlan for the last 4 years. A change in all Immigration status for Canadian and American residents here last year, has made their LEGALLY imported cars under the old system , instantly ILLEGAL, and they have to go up to the border to be: 1) reimported and a tax paid if they are 8 years old or newer. Or 2) they cannot reenter Mexico if they are 9 years old or older. Period! Mine was titled in Canada as a 1996 Ferrari F40 with a Quebec vin number that is neither Fiero or Ferrari. Any of you with Fieros know the years for that car were 1984 through 1998. Any of you familiar with the F40, know the years were 1988 to 1992. So nothing is as it seems. It is an oddball vin that Quebec assigned specially built vehicles. There is a dash vin plate, and one on the doorpost that match the original Quebec registration, and then was also assigned an Alberta registration, when the car was sold to someone in Alberta. I bought it from him after he had driven it in Alberta legally for three years. It is a well built car; as good as any I have seen that were Fiero conversions, and i will fight to keep it. It has been more fun to drive than any of the other sports cars i have had, including 8 Porsches and a Maserati. For all of you that wish it, I have two options on this car to keep it in Mexico: 1) transfer the body and interior over to the second Car; the 86 Fiero. 2) do it some other way that gives me a Mexican legal fiero with an F40 body and interior. I have come to appreciate that whatever option happens, will not be further discussed with anyone, with one assurance- this car will never leave Mexico and be reimported into the US or Canada. So all any of you worried about how this may affect you in the US and Canada under rules there, need not feel threatened!!! Thanks again to any that offered help and encouragement. Although this exercise on the forum has provided me the info I needed, it has been nothing short of an educational experience, with lessons learned. I will consider my input to this thread over. S
Steve, I wish you the best with this. As mentioned what you are proposing is highly illegal in the US & Canada, but as you have said, in Mexico, you sometimes just have to do what needs to be done
My suggestions is to as others have stated, pay the taxes, or transfer the body onto the legal Mexican Fiero that you have. It should not be difficult to do, as all of the panels have already been molded, cut, trimmed and adjusted to fit on a Fiero frame.
As to all of you nay Sayers: Be more informed before you state that a VIN number can not be changed, or a vehicle given a new VIN number:
It is actually quite common for a clerk that can not readily get/read/verify a VIN number, due to whatever reason, to "re-brand" the car with a new VIN number. This can happen when a car has been severely damaged, stolen recovery where the VIN has been altered destroyed ect. They will then issue a VIN number that does not correspond to any manufactured car, but just a number that the department of motor vehicles uses as their generic number. In Florida these specialty VIN numbers start with FL, thus something like FL04839483.
This is a paragraph from THIS PAGE where a Corvette was stolen, recovered, and then branded a NEW VIN NUMBER:
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The investigation showed the Corvette was originally sold in 1966 by a Chevy dealer in Georgia. It was stolen was eventually recovered by police sometime between 1966-1969. Because the original VIN was missing when it was recovered, Georgia’s Department of Motor Vehicles rebranded it with the GA7558 sticker.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-19-2014).]
Could you not contact the motor vehicle branch in Quebec and have them send you documentation that states that it was a custom built car (as per the VIN) and not a real F40?
what about just finding the correct vin for the fiero and title/register it as such in the states, then import it? Perhaps I don't understand, is there a reason the origional fiero vin would not be able to be used?
Yes there are ways to legally change a vin number. I had a 64 Corvair that was scrapped. Could not be re-titled with the original vin number. Had it titled as an assembled vehicle. Just needed a pile of receipts for various parts.
I agree no way it should have been registered as a real F40. 
