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Paint experts....2 questions please! by Gokart
Started on: 05-09-2014 02:49 AM
Replies: 12 (323 views)
Last post by: Tha Driver on 05-11-2014 12:42 AM
Gokart
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Report this Post05-09-2014 02:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GokartSend a Private Message to GokartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With the warm weather coming I made myself an outside painting booth under our top deck and may be painting my Fiero soon. I wanted to ask if anyone knows what is the lowest grade of sandpaper I can use so I don't have to re-prime any parts. I have slight orange peel on some of them and I want to smooth them out before spraying the new base coat. All parts have been and will be painted with 2 stage base and clear.
Also, how long do I have to let the paint/clear coat cure before I can apply vinyl graphics. I was told by a local shop just a few weeks but I thought it may have to be longer to let the finish breathe and cure? I'll be applying 2 stripes across the car from front to back with these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/271...id=p3984.m1423.l2649
Thanks for any advice!
Marc
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Ponnari
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Report this Post05-09-2014 03:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PonnariSend a Private Message to PonnariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hello, it is best to have it baked in the shops paint booth.
if there is a paint shop near by maybe they would bake it
for a reasonable fee.

if you can't get it baked, I would double the time that anyone
tells you, just to be safe. Also it depends on the quality and brand
in some cases of the paint you are using.

Good luck on your project!
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Fierodude13
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Report this Post05-09-2014 03:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierodude13Click Here to Email Fierodude13Send a Private Message to Fierodude13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It depends on what primer your using. If you've applied a very thin primer I'd go pretty fine, 1500 maybe 1800. I like to use high build formulas so I can just apply a single coat and not deal with minor scratches. I like to start with 1000 grit for small flaws and go to 1500 and finally 2000. I've painted 18 cars now and 2 weeks at an average temperature of 70 seems to be enough time to cure. However I let it cure inside a closed garage.
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Tha Driver
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Report this Post05-09-2014 05:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Never sand primer with anything finer than 400 wet or 320 dry paper.
Why not just paint on the stripes? You can let the basecoat dry for 30 minutes to an hour, layout & paint the stripe, & clear over everything. The stripe (straight lines) is easy enough to layout using 1/4" blue layout tape - just tape off & cover the rest of the car when shooting the stripes. Put extra coats of clear over the stripe, sand & buff smooth. That way you don't have an edge on the stripes, that like to collect wax, etc., & it looks great.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts
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Gokart
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Report this Post05-09-2014 06:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GokartSend a Private Message to GokartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:

Never sand primer with anything finer than 400 wet or 320 dry paper.
Why not just paint on the stripes? You can let the basecoat dry for 30 minutes to an hour, layout & paint the stripe, & clear over everything. The stripe (straight lines) is easy enough to layout using 1/4" blue layout tape - just tape off & cover the rest of the car when shooting the stripes. Put extra coats of clear over the stripe, sand & buff smooth. That way you don't have an edge on the stripes, that like to collect wax, etc., & it looks great.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts


Hi Paul. I may try that but I'm doing a panel off job and I'm afraid I won't get the lines matched up perfectly. Good to know about sanding primer and those that replied above about sanding the top coat. I have a quality fast filling primer under the base that needed a hardening agent added so I'm good there. So I gather that 1500 is the lowest grade of paper I can go to smooth out orange peel on the top coat so I won't have to re-prime? I was hoping I could use paper a little more course like 800 but if it will leave surface scratches and will have to re-prime I'll stick with the higher grades.
Thanks, Marc

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post05-09-2014 01:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To ME, #1500 is Way too "fine". I have never had ANY problem when using a DA, or wet sanding primer with #400 and putting the base on. putting base on 1500, (In MY opinion), you MAY have adhesion problems somewhere down the road. I agree about "Painting on the stripes" and clearing it all. Paint the "general areas" where you want the stripes first, lay the panels On the car, Put down your blue "fine line"and mask off where you want the stripes, remove the panels and paint them off the car. (just my opinion.)
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Tha Driver
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Report this Post05-09-2014 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart:


Hi Paul. I may try that but I'm doing a panel off job and I'm afraid I won't get the lines matched up perfectly. Good to know about sanding primer and those that replied above about sanding the top coat. I have a quality fast filling primer under the base that needed a hardening agent added so I'm good there. So I gather that 1500 is the lowest grade of paper I can go to smooth out orange peel on the top coat so I won't have to re-prime? I was hoping I could use paper a little more course like 800 but if it will leave surface scratches and will have to re-prime I'll stick with the higher grades.
Thanks, Marc

Wetsanding the clear, I start with 1000 on a paint paddle to get it flat. Once the orange peel is gone, I go over it with either 1500 (light colors) or 2000 (darker colors) using a sponge pad. After that buffing is pretty easy. Put plenty of clear (3 or 4 coats) so you don't sand through.
For stripes, you really need the parts bolted on & lined up to make sure the stripes line up, at least on the front end. You might not want to go to that much trouble, but it's worth it in the long run to have clear over the stripes... On the back, you should be able to measure & do the stripes on the decklid & rear bumper without assembly. I double-coat the clear over the stripes so I can sand the edges smooth without sanding through.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

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Gokart
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Report this Post05-09-2014 06:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GokartSend a Private Message to GokartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:

Wetsanding the clear, I start with 1000 on a paint paddle to get it flat. Once the orange peel is gone, I go over it with either 1500 (light colors) or 2000 (darker colors) using a sponge pad. After that buffing is pretty easy. Put plenty of clear (3 or 4 coats) so you don't sand through.
For stripes, you really need the parts bolted on & lined up to make sure the stripes line up, at least on the front end. You might not want to go to that much trouble, but it's worth it in the long run to have clear over the stripes... On the back, you should be able to measure & do the stripes on the decklid & rear bumper without assembly. I double-coat the clear over the stripes so I can sand the edges smooth without sanding through.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts


Excellent advice! Thanks Paul. I assumed the stripes would be better laid out after the parts are attached. One bit of confusion and it could be on my part....I'm not looking to sand out the orange peel to then buff out. I'm painting every panel a different color but do not want to use paper to low and have to re-prime. 400 okay?
Also, I've been advised by my local paint supply store not to do any metallic colors if I'm doing a panel off paint job. The metal flake will not blend in and the panels will all look different. Any comments on this as well?
Thanks, Marc

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post05-09-2014 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree with Driver. 400 is the finest you want to sand prior to paint. Anything finer and you run the risk of it peeling later. I rarely wet sand prior to paint as it causes all kinds of other issues. I personally use 360/320. I use 1000 to color sand generally and 1200 for darker colors like black and blue. I prefer doing all my jobs with the body assembled. 3 coats of clear is the maximum Ill use, except like driver says for covering stripes/graphics. Baked paint is a myth. Its only purpose is to dry the paint faster to get another job in the booth as quick as you can. Some places need to paint 6-10 cars in a day and they cant wait 3 hours for one to get dry enough to take out of the booth. On your metallic question, I agree that painting the car apart is a bad idea...the metallic particles do lay down differently. You can get away with it if you mount all the separate parts in correct orientation to each other. Pearls and true candy colors are very unlikely to match if painted separately. They all also need to be painted at one time as temp, humidity, and mix can alter the color. This is true with some colors more than others. Ive painted vehicles professionally for 45 years. Another tip, due to variations in mix...if you get your paint in several say quart cans, mix them all together before reducing. The paint store can make minor variations when they mix it.
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Gokart
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Report this Post05-10-2014 03:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GokartSend a Private Message to GokartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

I agree with Driver. 400 is the finest you want to sand prior to paint. Anything finer and you run the risk of it peeling later. I rarely wet sand prior to paint as it causes all kinds of other issues. I personally use 360/320. I use 1000 to color sand generally and 1200 for darker colors like black and blue. I prefer doing all my jobs with the body assembled. 3 coats of clear is the maximum Ill use, except like driver says for covering stripes/graphics. Baked paint is a myth. Its only purpose is to dry the paint faster to get another job in the booth as quick as you can. Some places need to paint 6-10 cars in a day and they cant wait 3 hours for one to get dry enough to take out of the booth. On your metallic question, I agree that painting the car apart is a bad idea...the metallic particles do lay down differently. You can get away with it if you mount all the separate parts in correct orientation to each other. Pearls and true candy colors are very unlikely to match if painted separately. They all also need to be painted at one time as temp, humidity, and mix can alter the color. This is true with some colors more than others. Ive painted vehicles professionally for 45 years. Another tip, due to variations in mix...if you get your paint in several say quart cans, mix them all together before reducing. The paint store can make minor variations when they mix it.


Thanks Roger. Great advice as always!

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Tha Driver
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Report this Post05-10-2014 06:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Gokart:


Excellent advice! Thanks Paul. I assumed the stripes would be better laid out after the parts are attached. One bit of confusion and it could be on my part....I'm not looking to sand out the orange peel to then buff out. I'm painting every panel a different color but do not want to use paper to low and have to re-prime. 400 okay?
Also, I've been advised by my local paint supply store not to do any metallic colors if I'm doing a panel off paint job. The metal flake will not blend in and the panels will all look different. Any comments on this as well?
Thanks, Marc


OK you lost me. Painting each panel a different color? You're sanding primer, right? And don't want to re-prime? Then 400 wet is the way to go.
If you're shooting metallics, just hang the doors, fenders, & 1/4 panels vertically to shoot them, & lay the hood & trunk flat. That way the metallic will lay the same on all adjoining panels. If you were to lay a door panel flat for example, it allows the metallic to settle more & will make the part a *tad* darker (than parts painted hung vertically).
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts
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Gokart
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Report this Post05-10-2014 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GokartSend a Private Message to GokartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:


OK you lost me. Painting each panel a different color? You're sanding primer, right? And don't want to re-prime? Then 400 wet is the way to go.
If you're shooting metallics, just hang the doors, fenders, & 1/4 panels vertically to shoot them, & lay the hood & trunk flat. That way the metallic will lay the same on all adjoining panels. If you were to lay a door panel flat for example, it allows the metallic to settle more & will make the part a *tad* darker (than parts painted hung vertically).
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts


Hi Paul. Great advice on hanging the panels!
I'm painting all the panels the same color but a different color than they are now. Basically, I want to sand out some slight orange peel on the existing color. I do not plan on sanding past the base coat but don't want to leave scuff marks and then have to prime. I'm doing base/clear on top of base/clear but a darker color.
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Report this Post05-11-2014 12:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart:


Hi Paul. Great advice on hanging the panels!
I'm painting all the panels the same color but a different color than they are now. Basically, I want to sand out some slight orange peel on the existing color. I do not plan on sanding past the base coat but don't want to leave scuff marks and then have to prime. I'm doing base/clear on top of base/clear but a darker color.


I always prime everything with PPG DP epoxy primer. It seals, & increases adhesion. You can shoot paint directly over it after 30 minutes without sanding, if you lay it on smooth.
But yeah sand everything smooth with 400 wet before shooting. If you decide to use the epoxy, you can get by with sanding with 180 dry (either by hand or with a DA) before priming. If you want it REALLY smooth, you can sand the epoxy with 400 wet after it drys for a couple days.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts
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