Long story short I traded my '85 Ford ranger with a 4.6 v8 for an 84 fiero with, what the previous owner claims to be, a newi(ish) 350 crate motor from jegs rated at 290hp. From what he told me it has an '85 vette intake, full koni suspension, electric water pump, the nice bushings (can't remember the name but they're the stiffer, not rubber, red ones) all the way around, and a getrag 5-speed. It also has a rats nest of a wiring harness, no battery tray, iffy paint job, an eh (I've had better and I've had worse) interior, and a headlight that's slow to come up. As of right now to get it driving (in theory) is to clean up the wiring harness, replace the coolant hose that goes from the bottom drivers side of the firewall to the motor and mount a battery. Between school coming to a close, work being slammed, and prom coming up I don't have much time to work on it but I'm selling a car so right off the bat I'll be starting with about $1000. Right now I'm working on sorting out the wiring harness so I'll include some before shots of that mess. I've been doing a ton of reading and digging but I'll still have quite a few questions as I keep updating this thread as it'll be part build log and part questions if that's cool. So without further a due:




A/C has been removed, but anyone have any idea why there's a fuel pump in the coolant line going in or out of my heater core? Crappy shot:


I doubt it and I couldn't find one but is there a place that would make an elbow for this intake?



Any ideas where this guy is supposed to go? It was sitting on top of the motor next the the injectors on the front (would be passenger side if motor was traditionally mounted). I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out once I get some manuals with wiring diagrams.




And of course the picture doesn't due this giants rat's nest justice but it's the only before shot I have. Hopefully I'll have it sorted out, not finished though, by Sunday.


(Had to use photobucket for now as the pics aren't on my computer yet)

[This message has been edited by 5.7Fiero (edited 05-06-2014).]

You need to use Pennocks Image Poster (PIP) to post images. It's at the bottom of every forum page in the red and blue button. It's also PC only, so if you have a Mac you'll have to host the images elsewhere and link to them in your reply box.

quote Originally posted by 5.7Fiero: I guess Pennock's is a little different then I thought, let me try and figure out some pics.

Looking forward to seeing a lot of pictures of the beast. As mentioned, it's best to use PIP to post images here. And these are the limitations...

Here, this link is just as effective:


http://s30.photobucket.com/...zps34ea59ff.jpg.html

[This message has been edited by NW-Fiero (edited 05-06-2014).]

Yeah thanks I'll definitely do that in the future, I've gotten too used to the VBulletin set-up.

OMG, what a wiring nightmare!

If you get this all figured out, there needs to be an award of some sort.

I've never seen a fuel pump tied into a coolant hose before. I assume that the previous owner was having some flow issues through the heater core.

If you location does not require emissions, you need to seriously consider just cutting that whole mess out and putting a carb and old school intake with a distributator on that thing and be happy. Larry

quote Originally posted by 5.7Fiero: I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out once I get some manuals with wiring diagrams. And of course the picture doesn't due this giants rat's nest justice but it's the only before shot I have. Hopefully I'll have it sorted out, not finished though, by Sunday.

Resist the temptation to "dive in" and start moving things around - you'll only make it worse. Been there, don't wanna go back.

Get your wiring diagrams (assembly manuals) for the engine AND the fiero AND a good multi-meter. PLAN where you want the wires to go.

Most important, decide exactly where you're at - does the car start and run OK ? Guages OK ? No battery drain ? - if yes, you're only in need of some clean up. If No, then you need to go through it WIRE-BY-WIRE, trace everything out, and mark up your wiring diagrams to reflect any changes you make. Mark your wires too if necessary. Just tape off un-necessary wires until you're absolutely sure they don't do anything. You can make everything neat AFTER you have everything working correctly.

I'd highly recommend your first mission as "verification" to make sure everything works, THEN step 2 is clean up. Don't start removing stuff unless you wanna end up starting from scratch and re-wiring the whole thing. GO slow and take your time - that engine is a beautiful thing and will be well worth the time and effort (looks basically like mine )

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 05-06-2014).]

I don't think you are going to get 326 MPG out of it.

The old Fiero ECM 1228156 is still in the stock location? wtf? It has no function with a swapped engine. Start by unplugging it and see if you see any difference in the operation of the engine. You should not. If no difference then pull it and toss it.

The 1226870 is the ECM that is running the engine. That ECM is not waterproof. It needs to be moved into the interior. It can mount on the stock ECM bracket. The 1226870 ECM is for an 85 5.7.

KEEP THE EFI. Just straighten out the wiring. It will be a good task for you. You can learn about EFI. Do you know how to solder wires and cover them with shrink tube? If not you need to learn. Anything less than soldered joints are going to haunt you until you do them right.

Here is the wiring diagram for the 1226870 - http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~...s/85Fbody-wiring.pdf

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 05-06-2014).]

I hope you get it sorted out, there are some really talented people on this forum that can be a big help to you. Please be very careful if and when you drive this car, I know when you are young you feel like you are indestructible. This will be an awfully fast car so you will need to be careful to not overwhelm the handling of the car or overdrive the brakes.

The "fuel pump on the heater core" is your windshield washer bottle and pump.....

Totterlg: I'm lucky enough to live in Minnesota with no inspections but I think I'm keeping the fuel injection just because it's there.

PaulJK: I was kind of forced to jump in as there had been a small fire at one point (PVC intake got too hot, I wouldn't run pvc anyway) but the condition of the motor when I got it was: kinda running. I could get it to start and run a little but without a coolant system I couldn't run it long and there were already a handful of burnt up wires. This isn't my first wiring harness mess, so far the system I have down is to have a big bag of zip ties, a snips, and a trash can within reach. I started at the 350 ECM and worked my way out, tracing ever wire that didn't follow the rest all the way to where it went and separated it from the main group of wires adding, removing, and re adding zip ties where needed so far it doesn't look a ton better but my main goal is making sure everything goes somewhere and if it doesn't it gets a big tape flag marked with it's starting location. Once I get the harness sorted then I'm planning on starting at the ECM again and working my way out soldering and shrink tubing anywhere that there is currently electrical tape. I wouldn't call this process as much as a clean up as an overhaul. Do you recommend any specific manuals? I usually just grab one from O'Reily with every car I get.

CSJG: Thanks for the concern, and honestly I have no idea how to drive something like this but I'm excited to learn. My first hot rod was a topless, lowered, v8 '85 ranger that would do a burnout through second without the brakes but was scary scary scary in the corners. I always said if I didn't make it to 25 it would be because of that truck so I'm happy it's gone. Hopefully I'll be able to keep the shiny side up with this one.

OleJoeDad: Sorry for the bad pic I can snap another but to the left of the windshield bottle in the pic I posted there is an electronic fuel pump labeled "electronic fuel pump" hooked up to what looks to be the heater core hoses. Whoever said that it's probably there because he had coolant flow issues is probably right.

quote Originally posted by 5.7Fiero: Long story short I traded my '85 Ford ranger with a 4.6 v8 for an 84 fiero

If that is an 84, someone has since put a newer GT front bumper, or it was an Indy.

quote Originally posted by 5.7Fiero: Any ideas where this guy is supposed to go? It was sitting on top of the motor next the the injectors on the front (would be passenger side if motor was traditionally mounted). I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out once I get some manuals with wiring diagrams.

If that's behind the driver side, it could be the trunk eject. Is there an eject on your decklid? Does it work?

quote Originally posted by 5.7Fiero: I always said if I didn't make it to 25 it would be because of that truck so I'm happy it's gone. Hopefully I'll be able to keep the shiny side up with this one.

Your problem will be keeping the rear end behind you.

I looked at that car once in Wisconsin, it was on craigslist. Was tempting. It has a nice lowering kit and swaybar too. I thought it was an Isuzu 5 speed not a getrag?

With all those "Burnt up Wires", Might you not be "Better off" Starting with a " Newer" Wire Harness ? all it takes is 1 shorted/frayed wire to "Light up" the whole thing !

It may be, he said it was the one from an 87 thought that was a getrag? Maybe not, my bad then. Yeah it looked like it has some beefy sway bars and I can't get the suspension to move in the rear, just sidewall flex from the tires so that's cool (I think). You don't happen to remember seeing anything else out of the ordinary or that were red flags or even pros do you?

Lou6t4: I'm planning on staying with this harness as I enjoy sorting out harnesses and I plan on replacing any wires that show any signs of damage. I'll look into a custom harness though.

Thanks,
Chase

[This message has been edited by 5.7Fiero (edited 05-06-2014).]

Fiero and your '85 harness uses PVC insulated wire. Newer harnesses (90s +) use TXL/GXL crosslinked polyethylene insulation. PVC has problems with getting brittle and cracking, melting under hot conditions and turning to mush when exposed to oil. It also burns well.

TXL eliminates most of these problems.

If you are replacing wires you will be ahead to source them from a used 90s harness that can be secured from a junk yard.

Rather than splicing connectors on you should consider purchasing a decent crimp tool and getting the ends needed. This tool is suitable for most weatherpack and metripack connectors and seals. It has the correct "reverse butt cheek" crimp for the wires and a metri-pack seal and weather-pack seal crimp. - http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAC...motive_Tools&vxp=mtr

You can get the terminals from a number of places and if you are interested I can sell small quantities also. Mouser has many of the terminals needed. They also have the correct terminal for the ECM connectors.

The firewall bulkhead will come apart after putting it in boiling water for 10 min. Yes this can be done with a coffee can and the harness still on the engine.




GM used nothing on the engine that was a simple slide on terminal like the one on the end of the wire. That one must be user added. The connector looks like a weatherpack connector for an 80s/90s knock sensor but GM used that kind of a connector for other things



It looks like the connector but idk since yours is quite melted. The knock sensor wire would have been dark blue. The Fiero didn't have one. I am not sure if the 93 5.7 would have either.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 05-06-2014).]

quote Originally posted by 2.5: I thought it was an Isuzu 5 speed not a getrag?

quote Originally posted by 5.7Fiero: It may be, he said it was the one from an 87 thought that was a getrag? Maybe not, my bad then.

It's probably from an '87 duke... therefore an Isuzu.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-06-2014).]

Isuzu

http://s30.photobucket.com/....jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 05-06-2014).]

I went with a Edlebrock carb myself. My wire harness was a pos wire to ignition side of distributor, a temp gauge, oil gauge, plus the starter and alternator
EFI will start better in cold and give you better gas mileage. It can also leave you stranded. The only problem I had was was solved with a small spacer under the carb to level it and keep intake heat off the bowls. Good luck with your project though.

* I havent used Image Poster in many years...it was always too problematic for me. I use an off site host. I think the last time I used IP was when I had a Windows 98 computer and it worked fine then. Problems cropped up with XP. Im perfectly happy with Picturetrail.com.

Phonedawgz: thanks for the info, especially on the knock sensor I'll check it out.

Rogergarrison: I would consider a carb if I can't get the efi to work but for now since it's there and should be in operable condition, minus the wiring, not to mention I think it looks pretty cool myself.

Does anyone know if this would be the correct harness if I wanted to go with a new one? I know they're a chunk of change but the assurance of good wires would be worth it:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Painl...oductId=#moreDetails

With the mess you have there I don't know if you will ever sort it out within reason. You should just really consider cutting it all out and putting a carb and distributator on it, it is easy and proven to run without any computer and all the other problems that go with it. There is a good reason you got it cheap. Larry

The problem with the painless harness is that it won't route like you need it to for the Fiero, and it sill isn't a complete solution. You might as well cut out an old harness from a Camaro since you will still have to re-work it.

If you are willing to spend that much money you would be much farther ahead getting a plug and play harness from me. Yeah I know I have slanted opinions but the painless harness isn't going to be easy or right.

EFI it. There is a reason carburetors and vacuum/mechanical advance distributors became obsolete 35 years ago.

Yes for manufacturers to get past emmissions tests and get better gas mileage for the government. My 413BB, carbed V8 66 Dodge passes emmissions. Ill give you it does only get 15-17 mpg...same as my EFI V6 Astro. Ive never had a carb leave me stranded...a screwdriver and pliers is a complete tool kit. FI, call a tow truck and get out your wallet. Theres always a debate on this, but its owner choice.

quote Originally posted by 5.7Fiero: You don't happen to remember seeing anything else out of the ordinary or that were red flags or even pros do you?

Na you mentioned most of it. The engine and headers were nearly brand new, with used TPI setup on top.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-07-2014).]

I bet going with a carb would cut 3 months off the project. Larry

I really don't think keeping the tpi will add three months to the project. Correct me if I'm wrong but: I should be able to pick up the painless harness and mount the PCM in the trunk as the painless harness is made to mount the PCM in the glove box area of a normal car putting it in perfect position to throw the PCM in the trunk. Then in theory it's just adapting my gauges and ignition to the harness and I should be set right? I should be able to handle that, I just hate the idea of sketchy wiring as I'm more afraid of the car catching fire than of me crashing it.

Phonedawgz: I made the connection between you and your site, you make some pretty sweet harnesses. I think for now I'll try and take on the project myself but I like the idea of efi so I'd probably have you make me a harness before I went with a carb.

Thanks,
Chase

I want to incorporate the C4 vette cenetercap logo into the car somewhere, possibly a large decal along the bottom of the rear window?

quote Originally posted by 5.7Fiero: PaulJK: Do you recommend any specific manuals? I usually just grab one from O'Reily with every car I get.

I have the Assembly Manual for both my cars. Not the Chiltons or Haynes, but the GM Assembly that's about 2 inches thick. It has ALL the wiring diagrams in the back, connectors, locations, etc. It is a REAL help when you're doing major wiring projects.

Like someone already posted, the junkyard is another valuable resource for clips, connectors, wires, etc. Work your way through and try to learn / enjoy the work. You'll make it .

I too am interested to find out why you have a fuel pump inline with the heater core...

P.S: Larry, Roger... he said he's keeping the fuel injection and likes electrical work.

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 05-19-2014).]

congrats on the purchase and gotta hand it to you for wanting to dig in to that rats nest of wires. I like the looks of the motor with the EFI too.

------------------
1986 Fiero GT fastback SC3800 3.4 pulley, LS1 TB
1986 Fiero GT Fastback 3.4Lpr with 4T60 - SOLD
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee with "big boy" 5.9 motor
1983 Honda Goldwing 1100 Interstate

Thanks I'll look into the manuals.

In regards to the tpi I've already gone through and straightened everything out, soldered and shrink tubed all splices/connections. As far as wiring goes I just need to ground my grounds, I have them grouped together and set to the side just not grounded yet, get all the positives to the positive terminal, and run some wire loom. I think I'm going to buy or build a small enclosure to mount the electronics in the trunk.

Along the lines of mounting the electronics in the trunk, the car doesn't have a battery tray, is the front relocation kit worth it or could I mount that in the trunk as well?

Also I haven't tracked down where the other wire goes but does anyone have any idea why I'd have a toggle switch in line with my water temp sensor?

Thanks,
Chase

That toggle switch could be to turn the radiator fan on at will

Ahhhh ok that makes sense. I'll look into an electronic fan controller as the toggle is just hanging in the engine bay and I've never liked driving or understood cars with manual fan controls.

Thanks,
Chase

Fieros are heavy in the rear, and your Fiero is going to be heavier in the rear...... get the battery to the front.

A quick update with a few questions. I decided to wait and go with a tpi harness from Larry's electric as I would rather do it right and start with good wire vs the disintegrating mess that it came with. I'm planning on running the battery and electronics in the trunk, possibly with a false floor to hide everything, do marine batteries vent hydrogen like everyone says car ones do? I can get a deal on them and they seem to always be mounted in enclosed areas on boats so I don't see why that wouldn't work. Next issue is cooling. Mainly connecting the lower drivers side coolant tube to the upper passenger side of the engine, I've found a few threads with pics of a bent piece of metal tubing that some say they had done at an exhaust shop that runs along the front wall of the engine bay but I can't find any specs, or what kind of tubing was used. Any help clearing this up would be greatly appreciated.

Here's the thread referring to the coolant tube (I Pm's archie last week as he had offered the sods in one thread but he hasn't gotten back to me)
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050818-2-060281.html

Thanks,
Chase

quote Originally posted by carbon: I too am interested to find out why you have a fuel pump inline with the heater core... P.S: Larry, Roger... he said he's keeping the fuel injection and likes electrical work.

With the wiring disaster I see he may get over his like for electrical work real fast.