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Picked up a 350 Fiero... by 5.7Fiero
Started on: 05-05-2014 11:25 PM
Replies: 68 (2055 views)
Last post by: Adjustso3 on 04-27-2015 03:11 PM
olejoedad
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Report this Post05-27-2014 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With proper documentation, wiring is simple....one wire at a time, move on to the next wire.
People get overwhelmed because the look at the rats nest rather than looking at each individual circuit.
I have to disagree about carbs vs EFI....,.I will take EFI over old school any day for reliability, economy, and power. Its so simple and trouble free because it is well designed and engineered.
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5.7Fiero
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Report this Post05-27-2014 11:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 5.7FieroSend a Private Message to 5.7FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nope, I still like wiring. I actually sorted out the harness, repaired bad connections, and removed excess and redundant wires to the point where it would turn over and sputter but with who knows how old gas, brittle wires, no cooling and no intake connecting the maf(?) sensor to the intake I didn't want to really run it.

That's another question I have. I have a sensor down in front of my wheel well that I think is a maf sensor, but on some tpi builds I see there is a filter attached directly to the intake. Can I do that? As of right now I need a rubber s bend tube with an oval on one end and a circle on the other so I know that's next to impossible to find so what are my options?

Thanks,
Chase
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fieroguru
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Report this Post05-27-2014 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 85-89 TPI engines were MAF based. The 90-92 ones were Speed Density and allow the filter to be directly connected to the throttle body.

Alex4mula uses a version of this conversion to run SD with his swap and kept the MAF ECM.
http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...165-maf-165-map.html

The SD TPI engines used the 7730 and stock V8 SD TPI Memcals are getting very hard to come by...

If you are a glutton for punishment, you can convert it to use the LS1 ecm... Lots of work, but you get both SD & MAF, sequential fuel injector, coil per plug ignition, and better tuning options. I am putting the finishing touches on a SBC/F23 swap that I did the 24X conversion to.
http://www.eficonnection.co...iconnection/24x.aspx

------------------
Website: fieroguruperformance.com
Products: 88 13" Brake Kit, 88 12" Brake Kit, 88 Lateral Link Relocation, 84-87 Machined Front Hubs, Custom Machining
Engine Swaps:
LS4/F40, HSR/SBC/F23, Pro-Flo/383/Getrag, 4.3CPI/4T60, Ramjet SBC/Getrag, 4.9/Isuzu, Carb SBC/Isuzu, 4.5/Isuzu

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PaulJK
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Report this Post05-28-2014 07:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 5.7Fiero:

Along the lines of mounting the electronics in the trunk, the car doesn't have a battery tray, is the front relocation kit worth it or could I mount that in the trunk as well?



I put a piece of plywood vertically on the passenger side of the trunk, making a little "walled" space, then mounted the ECM on it sideways and inside the space. You can mount the battery in the trunk if you want, but i then wouldn't want to carry my cargo there. The battery in my v8 car is in the front - has really long cables. It's ok but takes up a lot of space. Personally, i'd get another battery tray and leave it in the engine compartment if it will fit.

Fiero store has battery tray and battery tray package

http://fierostore.com/Product/Detail.aspx?s=50254
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post05-28-2014 11:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I converted a MAF style TPI engine to a Speed Density engine for my 308 rebody kit many years ago. I made several drawings of the wiring layout to help me troubleshoot if problems arose later on. Here's a low rez example of my wiring schematic showing the engine to Fiero chassis connectors. My base car was an '84, but once you get to this level of rewiring, it doesn't make much difference what year your chassis is.



To fit in the Pennock's Image Poster limitations of size, virtually nothing is readable so if you want, I can email you a higher resolution version.
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5.7Fiero
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Report this Post05-28-2014 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 5.7FieroSend a Private Message to 5.7FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the schematic, I'll send you a P.M.. I'm planning on picking up this harness,so I guess I'll be doing quite a bit more research into converting from maf to map.
Still not sure what I'm going to do about the coolant line running along the front of the engine bay as I can't find the specs and I can't bring the car in to get a piece made.

http://www.larryselectricsi...item.php?productid=2

Thanks,
Chase
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2.5
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Report this Post05-28-2014 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 5.7Fiero:

Thanks for the schematic, I'll send you a P.M.. I'm planning on picking up this harness,so I guess I'll be doing quite a bit more research into converting from maf to map.
Still not sure what I'm going to do about the coolant line running along the front of the engine bay as I can't find the specs and I can't bring the car in to get a piece made.

http://www.larryselectricsi...item.php?productid=2

Thanks,
Chase


Seems like you would just need the diameter and then what some people do is bend a wire to the shape the tube will need to be, see if a shop will bend a tube to match?
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jaymelk2
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Report this Post05-28-2014 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaymelk2Click Here to Email jaymelk2Send a Private Message to jaymelk2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry oldjoe...I can't agree on your carb ideas. It has been proven that a carb as much and sometimes a little morepower than FI...they are also extremely reliable. Economy is not in the carbs favor though as FI meters the fuel alot more precisely.

------------------
87 GT....SBC...fast as hell...
Proud new owner of....THE DIRTY RAT

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Report this Post05-28-2014 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 5.7Fiero:

Still not sure what I'm going to do about the coolant line running along the front of the engine bay as I can't find the specs and I can't bring the car in to get a piece made.



I use Scheduled 40 pipe (about 1 1/4" OD so Fiero hoses slide right on it) and either bend it to shape or use elbows and weld it up.

Here is one I have made:
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olejoedad
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Report this Post05-28-2014 11:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jaymelk2:

Sorry oldjoe...I can't agree on your carb ideas. It has been proven that a carb as much and sometimes a little morepower than FI...they are also extremely reliable. Economy is not in the carbs favor though as FI meters the fuel alot more precisely.



You're entitled to your opinion, as am I.
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5.7Fiero
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Report this Post05-29-2014 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 5.7FieroSend a Private Message to 5.7FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Alright so here's the plan as of now:

Use this harness with the ecm I have (I have a chip for my ecm anyway if I decide to use it but that's further down the road). The chip I have is a custom JET performance chip that was originally tuned for the first V8 that was in the car, which is also where my current intake came from. The only difference I can tell between my engine and the engine the chip was programmed for is that the other engine had an aftermarket cam. Once I get it running 100% can I still use the chip or am I just asking for trouble?
http://www.summitracing.com...hcli2spTKHGtSHPD_BwE

Also as a side note I'm 99.99% sure this is my car....
(first run after adding N2O)
"I took the car to Cicero (esta drag strip)
Its a "real" strip unlike my local short track. Well the car pulled up to the line the light went green ..... and thud broken tranny. The car just about pulled the front wheels off the ground but the car barely moved a foot. It looks like the spider gears blew and grenaded the case."
http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...-i-added-n2o-my.html
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2.5
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Report this Post05-29-2014 12:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 5.7Fiero:


Also as a side note I'm 99.99% sure this is my car....
http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...-i-added-n2o-my.html


If it is that car, that owner thought it was a getrag, and in other posts called it a 1988.

"Im going to build another getrag 5 speed. The one that blew had over 100000 miles on it."

Anyone registered at thirdgens site, there are pics in this thread:
http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...t-87-iroc-350-a.html
In that thread sounds like he knew it had a "125" tranny but was going to put in a Getrag.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-29-2014).]

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5.7Fiero
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Report this Post05-29-2014 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 5.7FieroSend a Private Message to 5.7FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My guess is that the car was sold with the bad tranny after that last post and the Isuzu I have now was swapped in. If anyone cares here's the pics that are supposed to be in the thread:



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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post05-29-2014 03:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Could the electric fuel pump in your first pictures be the electric water pump in your first post?
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2.5
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Report this Post05-29-2014 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Based on the strut mount that looks like an 88, its also got a later than 84 decklid and vents, I believe 84 trunk carpets were black..

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-29-2014).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post05-29-2014 08:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
88 strut rings will not fit on a pre-88......
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Grantman
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Report this Post06-05-2014 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GrantmanClick Here to Email GrantmanSend a Private Message to GrantmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
looks like this car went up for sale today.
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jaymelk2
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Report this Post06-07-2014 06:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaymelk2Click Here to Email jaymelk2Send a Private Message to jaymelk2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sooo many people get in over their head and then these poor cars end up at the scrapyard. I shudder to think that the Rat was headed in that very direction.

------------------
87 GT....SBC...fast as hell...
Proud new owner of....THE DIRTY RAT

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5.7Fiero
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Report this Post06-08-2014 05:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 5.7FieroSend a Private Message to 5.7FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got a service manual and it says that the set of relays on the drivers side firewall in the engine compartment are for my fuel pump and a/c clutch, but they're my turn signal relays. If I hold them in my hand and put the right turn signal on one clicks, left turn signal makes the other click. The wire colors do not correspond to what's in my car either, but it definitely looks stock. So where the heck is my fuel pump relay? The two relays are illustrated and labeled in multiple places in the manual. Manual is a 1984 Pontiac service manual. Any help?

Thanks,
Chase
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Gall757
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Report this Post06-08-2014 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Turn signal relays? Test your theory by removing one of the relays and see if the turn signal still works.
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post06-08-2014 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe your fuel pump relay is under the dash behind the fuse box?

[This message has been edited by 85 SE VIN 9 (edited 06-08-2014).]

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Report this Post06-08-2014 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 5.7FieroSend a Private Message to 5.7FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good call gall, unplugging the relays doesn't effect the turn signals. They are definitely clicking with the turn signals though. Checked the voltages at the wires coming from the solenoid and some alternate 0-12 volts with the turn signal. Yup, I'm lost.

Dropped the tank and the fuel pump seems to work fine when jumped directly, but now with the tank in I can't hear the fuel pump running when I'm directly under where the pump is in the tank when jumping it. Also I'm getting about 8 volts on the car side of the two wire plug when in on or cranking over so I have to figure that out.

[This message has been edited by 5.7Fiero (edited 06-08-2014).]

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Bloozberry
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Report this Post06-08-2014 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your car is an '84 so the two relays behind the driver's seat on the firewall are indeed turn signal relays for the rear turn signals, but only for the two inner-most lights of six. In other words each side has three turn bulbs and the outer two will blink without the relay, but for the innermost light to blink, it was originally hooked up to one of those relays for left turns, and the other relay for right turns. The '84's are the only year with those relays.

Have you found your fuel pump relay yet?
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Old Lar
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Report this Post06-08-2014 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


I still have this one in my garage.
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5.7Fiero
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Report this Post06-08-2014 08:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 5.7FieroSend a Private Message to 5.7FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Then why the **** does my 1984 manual tell me that they're ****ing a/c and fuel pump relays? We're the 84 manuals completely innacurate then? And no I haven't found it yet.
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Report this Post06-08-2014 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The original '84 manuals were correct but the one you have is probably a reprint of a reprint of a later model that's been relabelled by someone who didn't know what they were doing. Unfortunately I'm not sure exactly where the fuel pump relay is on the '84's because I converted mine to an SBC TPI back in the early '90's and moved things around a fair bit.

Your best bet is to ask a specific question in a new thread under the Tech Discussion and Questions section here on PFF. Make sure to put the question in the title and I can just about guarantee someone will answer with the right info within minutes.
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post06-09-2014 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why not just follow the wires from the pump? The relay may not be where it was in 1984 anyway.
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5.7Fiero
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Report this Post04-27-2015 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 5.7FieroSend a Private Message to 5.7FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Car's for sale, it's really close to being done but I'm moving and need to get rid of it.

link to add
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Adjustso3
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Report this Post04-27-2015 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey maybe that fuel pump in line with those hoses for the heater core is your electric water pump ! LOL ! That's gonna be a killer car when you get done. You definitely have more patience than I do. Good luck
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