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Won't Start, ran fine yesterday by jschmidt95
Started on: 04-26-2014 06:11 PM
Replies: 16 (226 views)
Last post by: rogergarrison on 04-28-2014 09:26 AM
jschmidt95
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Report this Post04-26-2014 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jschmidt95Click Here to Email jschmidt95Send a Private Message to jschmidt95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is a new thread based off of this one: "Upgrading to the 1988 CS 'I' type alternator, some questions"

Now I have a more legitimate problem and need some advice please

Okay, so I am still having some sort of major problem. I can't get the car started. the alternator is hooked up correctly with Wombat's Instructions. I took the battery in to sears and they said it's good. It's voltage reads right around 13. I open the door, courtesy lights come on, I turn the key to 'ON' i can hear the fuel pump start and then stop, but then when I turn it to start, it cranks for half a second and then everything electrical shuts off and it stops cranking. then when you turn the key back to 'on' or 'off' the electronics stay off until i disconnect, then reconnect the battery. When I tried jumping it from my friend's car, we managed to get it to crank consistently, but it was very slow and the lights dimmed with every crank. All the fusible links have been replaced with good in line fuses, I replace the battery bolts because they were pretty old, and I know it should Work because it started up fine and ran yesterday. I know the alternator is good, because I had the shop test it for me (for free)

Am I missing something? It's like when you try to crank it, all the power gets dumped....


-John
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Gall757
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Report this Post04-26-2014 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You have a connection that can't handle the amperage required to run the starter. Battery cables perhaps.
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jschmidt95
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Report this Post04-26-2014 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jschmidt95Click Here to Email jschmidt95Send a Private Message to jschmidt95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I also thought that...
I bought a new set of the battery bolts, cleaned up the battery connection and the battery cables... It's weird. I don't think it's my ECM, because I can short Pins A and B and it goes into the code list just fine (No Codes)

Any more suggestions? I'm going to go see if I can jump the solenoid right now and report back
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jschmidt95
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Report this Post04-26-2014 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jschmidt95Click Here to Email jschmidt95Send a Private Message to jschmidt95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Still the same when i tried to jump the solenoid. really slow crank then everything clicks off

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aarwigg
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Report this Post04-26-2014 07:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aarwiggSend a Private Message to aarwiggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You might have a dead cell or some kind of an internal short with your battery. Did you have them draw current through your battery? I had a battery that would read over 13 volts that started my van fine for some time, then one day it would start to crank and then DEAD, just like you said. AutoZone will load test batteries. Voltage can show up in a situation where, if a large current is drawn over, say a "weak" or corroded area inside the battery, the resistance will increase. So ohm's law is Volts = Amperage x Resistance, or Amperage = Volts / Resistance. When you draw 500 or more amps at 12 volts, resistance needs to be very low (almost zero 0.024 ohms). So imagine that your battery has built up internal resistance due to corrosion or something, as the resistance increases, in order to maintain the 500 amps, the voltage would have to drop down, and that is unacceptable for starting a motor (I don't know why on that part, except maybe the voltage is the pressure for the current maybe?). If you don't have a multimeter then I would have it load tested. If that checks out I would start looking for corroded battery terminals/wires going to solenoid/starter (big ones).
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post04-26-2014 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Take off the battery cables from the battery again. Hit both the cable surfaces that touch the battery and the battery surfaces that touch the cables with a wire brush. Put it back together and it will work.

This is your problem.

What is happening is that the majority of the surfaces are corroded. When bolted together only a small surface is actually touching. When you turn the key to start, the high amperage needs of the starter burn the small points that are touching. You hear a pop and the car goes dead. Then when you take the cables off and put them back on again you mash together the cable in a slightly new place and you do it over again.

Been there, done that exactly as above. Cleaning the surfaces off with a wire brush fixed them every time the trouble looked like this.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 04-26-2014).]

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84fiero123
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Report this Post04-27-2014 09:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
take cables off at battery, clean all contact surfaces of the cable and battery and re-attach them using dialectic grease to prevent future corrosion. if the starter still turns slowly you may have a bad starter, run jumper cables straight to the starter after cleaning all contact connections including at the starter. if still no joy bring the starter in for testing, you may just have a week starter.

I hate electrical problems, I would rather pound my balls flat with a sledge hammer than hunt down an electrical problem!

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-27-2014 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have you also checked the other ends of the cables...? Also the main power block above the battery on the body.
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jschmidt95
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Report this Post04-27-2014 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jschmidt95Click Here to Email jschmidt95Send a Private Message to jschmidt95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cleaned up everything, it started right up! twice! I even drove it for a couple miles.

Then, I go out this morning and it starts up fine, then died after five seconds and kills all of the electronics. interior lights and everything! things only start working again if I Disconnect and reconnect the battery, which seems to be restarting something.

Help, this problem is becoming super frustrating

-John
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rickburns
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Report this Post04-27-2014 03:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rickburnsClick Here to Email rickburnsSend a Private Message to rickburnsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Try with another battery you have handy. Will rule out an intermittent short in one of the battery cells.
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jschmidt95
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Report this Post04-27-2014 03:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jschmidt95Click Here to Email jschmidt95Send a Private Message to jschmidt95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just gave that a shot. The other battery has just under 13V and starts the minivan just fine. I hooked it up and the fiero is still responding like there isn't even a battery hooked up.

My neighbor suggested that maybe some sort of voltage regulator had died? Like I said, even with the new battery in it, you turn the key to ON and absolutely nothing happens. Thanks for the suggestion though
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jschmidt95
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Report this Post04-27-2014 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jschmidt95Click Here to Email jschmidt95Send a Private Message to jschmidt95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Could it be the starter solenoid|? Working intermittently then shorting out?
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Gall757
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Report this Post04-27-2014 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You have not blown any fuses or melted any links....so no shorts. Have you cleaned and tightened both ends of both battery cables?

It could be that your bearings in the starter have failed and it won't turn....but its a rare problem.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 04-27-2014).]

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post04-27-2014 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Get a 12v test light. Once the problem has occurred and is still occuring turn on the parking lights to present a load to the battery. Now] take the test light and connect it to the battery bolts. Does the light light? If so first move one lead from the battery bolt to the battery cable termainal. Then do the same with the other. Then try moving the negative to ground. Then move the positive to the power distribution bolts located under C500. Where does the power stop? That is your problem.

http://www.rvwholesalers.co...jCgb4CFYY7MgodZGcAaQ

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 04-27-2014).]

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jschmidt95
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Report this Post04-27-2014 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jschmidt95Click Here to Email jschmidt95Send a Private Message to jschmidt95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, Went through everything and it was a blown fusible link that I had replaced with an in-line fuse, Although when I checked it earlier it wasn't blown... What amperage fuse should I have in these fusible links? sorry to be having such a silly problem
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Report this Post04-27-2014 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://home.comcast.net/~fierocave/ecmwire_fl.htm

You may want to put all the fusable links back where they were just for this reason. They can handle brief overloads where a fuse will blow.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 04-27-2014).]

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-28-2014 09:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Id replace the fuseable link. If you just want some other kind of circuit protection, put in a circuit breaker instead of an inline fuse. Thats whats used on power seats and windows for that reason. Theyre usually gray metal and about 1/2" X 1"....in the same fuse box as the other fuses.
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