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engine cranks but won't start by GTrub
Started on: 04-25-2014 01:35 AM
Replies: 16 (515 views)
Last post by: GTrub on 04-27-2014 12:40 PM
GTrub
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Report this Post04-25-2014 01:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GTrubSend a Private Message to GTrubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hooked up a fast charger and turned the key. Engine started for a very short while then cut out. Now the prestart dashboard lights don't lightup and engine cranks but won't start. Anybody knows what may have happened or what next?
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trotterlg
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Report this Post04-25-2014 01:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is a fusable link in the line to the power for the car, check it. Larry
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GTrub
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Report this Post04-25-2014 02:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GTrubSend a Private Message to GTrubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Would you know general location and descripciĆ³n of the fuse link. I looked for something of the kind but didn't notice anything
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84fiero123
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Report this Post04-25-2014 07:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by GTrub:
Would you know general location and descripciĆ³n of the fuse link. I looked for something of the kind but didn't notice anything



Next to the battery, if it is bad it will look like it has a case of the mumps instead of like the regular insulation all the other wires next to it, they all come off the positive battery terminal I think, to early and no coffee yet. I am sure someone knows where the picture of the exact wire is, right now its to early and no coffee.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-25-2014).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post04-25-2014 08:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you have an 84 they are next to the starter.
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GTrub
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Report this Post04-25-2014 10:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GTrubSend a Private Message to GTrubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks guys, well after first cup of brain brew I'm looking and do see wires next to battery but nothingh looks burnt or reaching out to me. Wife thinks I just found the right way to fry the ECU/ECM - what ever that means????? So long to my last 3 days of R&R.

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gr85z
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Report this Post04-25-2014 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gr85zClick Here to Email gr85zSend a Private Message to gr85zEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just had similar symptoms as you are describing.
My dash lights were working though.
I took the ICM (Ignition Control Module) out and took to parts store to have tested. It of course failed. put new one in same thing. Ended up being coil not strong enough to make a good spark in system. Not sure if parts store can test coils but some things to look at.

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DLCLK87GT
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Report this Post04-25-2014 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DLCLK87GTSend a Private Message to DLCLK87GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It might help us help you if you tell us what you're working on; year, engine trans etc etc. An 84 2.5 is not the same as an 88 2.8
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GTrub
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Report this Post04-25-2014 10:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GTrubSend a Private Message to GTrubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's an 87 GT - 2.8 - automatic. All the fuses in the fuse box under dash are fine but some don't have power even with the key on.
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post04-26-2014 12:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does the check engine light come on, key on engine off? It should.

After you turn the key to on, but before you crank it, does the fuel pump come on, run for two seconds and then turn off? It should.

If both of these fail then look to see why your ECM isn't working. Most likely the problem with the ECM not working is no power to it but they do also go bad. Just don't assume the ECM is bad before looking to see why it isn't working.

IF

IF the two above tests pass then crank it and see if the tach rises to 200 rpm and then falls back to zero. I that fails then look to see why the primary side of the ignition system is failing.

-----
Since you said the engine cranked, fired and ran for a very short period of time, that does sound like a non-working ECM. The 2.8 has a 'cold start injector' that squirts fuel into the intake WHILE CRANKING and while the engine is cold. There is also an electric heater so it basically only does it at the start of the first crank or until you let the car sit for 15 min.

A common failure of the power to the ECM is an open ECM reset connector. If these two parts are not plugged together the car won't start and you will get the failure on the first two tests. It is located under the big electrical plug next to the battery.



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Some fuses don't have power with the key on? You mean like the dash light fuse? Yep that is normal.

Also do make sure you have +12v on both of the studs of the power distribution posts shown above. They should have +12 all the time (unswitched)

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 04-26-2014).]

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GTrub
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Report this Post04-26-2014 01:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GTrubSend a Private Message to GTrubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Phonedawgz you sir are the man. Will be checking all you mentioned first thing tomarrow morning as I were unable to do much to it today due to family matters. I'll be posting as I go. Thanks to all you guys.Feels like heaven sent.
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GTrub
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Report this Post04-26-2014 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GTrubSend a Private Message to GTrubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Done tested all the fuse links and they all have power on both sides of fuse. Check engine light not working. Techcometer not working. Fuel pump is working. Is there a way to test the ECM before having to dig into next X-Mass funds
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post04-26-2014 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fuel pump runs for two seconds after turning the key to on, and then stops?

Or is it that the fuel pump runs after cranking a bit?

Or is it that the fuel pump runs when wired to +12?

If not 1 then the ECM isn't running.

Check for power at the ECM. If you have power at the three places at the ECM then replace the ECM. Check for power on B1 - Orange and C16 - Orange for constant power. That power comes from the ECM reset connector wire. Then with the key on check for power on A6 Pink/Black. That one should have power with the key on. Check these by back probing them with the ECM still connected. You will most likely have to pull out the blue secondary pin retention clips before you can get your back probe pin into the connector.

ECM is located under the arm rest on the firewall inside the passengers compartment.

If you need a replacement ECM I can sell you a used one for $40 + 5 shipping

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 04-26-2014).]

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jschmidt95
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Report this Post04-26-2014 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jschmidt95Click Here to Email jschmidt95Send a Private Message to jschmidt95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like we're having similar problems...

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...132735.html#lastpost
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GTrub
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Report this Post04-27-2014 01:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GTrubSend a Private Message to GTrubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The fuel pump came on for about 2/3 seconds after turning key on. Son came over and talked me into just buying a used ECM # 1227170 on eBay. The thing is now I'm not sure if what I bought is even the ECM since we pull it out from behind the glove box between the seats. It's a metal box with two connectors. One is bigger than the other but both have two rows of prongs. Does this sounds like the ECM that I hope will bring back a smile and music to my ears in the form of my engine's roar???
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post04-27-2014 09:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes that is the ECM. Yes the 7170 is the correct ECM for a 2.8 Fiero
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GTrub
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Report this Post04-27-2014 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GTrubSend a Private Message to GTrubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank You - Phonedawgz I only wish I had looked here before ebay. Would've bought from you instead. I go back out of town to the old wheel mill tonight and won't be working on it till next weekend. Will post update than.
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