Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  Decklid Vent Airflow - Up or Down?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Decklid Vent Airflow - Up or Down? by Ravant
Started on: 04-09-2014 03:09 PM
Replies: 32 (860 views)
Last post by: rogergarrison on 04-12-2014 07:20 PM
Ravant
Member
Posts: 630
From: Garner, NC
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-09-2014 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RavantSend a Private Message to RavantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just as the thread title asks. Which way does the air flow through the stock decklid vents when the car is moving? I've heard a lot of data but don't have a car to test with, as mine is in a few different pieces around my garage at the moment. I'm looking for info about whether the air comes from under, through the engine compartment, up and out for cooling or if air cycles up from back->front and down through the vents. I've heard both but saw no data supporting either.

Anyone have a definitive answer?
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
jaskispyder
Member
Posts: 21510
From: Northern MI
Registered: Jun 2002


Feedback score:    (22)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 205
Rate this member

Report this Post04-09-2014 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
out the top, in from the bottom.

(my convertible would heat you out in the summer if I left the windows up and drove around)

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 04-09-2014).]

IP: Logged
Ravant
Member
Posts: 630
From: Garner, NC
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-09-2014 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RavantSend a Private Message to RavantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is what I figured. Thank you.
IP: Logged
Matthew_Fiero
Member
Posts: 2699
From: Winnipeg,Manitoba,Canada
Registered: Aug 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-09-2014 06:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Matthew_FieroClick Here to Email Matthew_FieroSend a Private Message to Matthew_FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What about the decklid to over the roof scoops?
IP: Logged
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 14175
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 190
Rate this member

Report this Post04-09-2014 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Purely for looks......
IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post04-09-2014 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Matthew_Fiero:

What about the decklid to over the roof scoops?


They disrupt air flow, and increase drag.

Some people for some reason like the look, but they're a waste of money really.
IP: Logged
Ravant
Member
Posts: 630
From: Garner, NC
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2014 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RavantSend a Private Message to RavantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Reason I ask is because, while convection is plenty for a stock engine, I'm going with a non-stock, potentially turbo build. While coolant temps are not particularly beholden to under-lid temps (the radiator and cooling system does that work), the ambient temperature and heat-soak can become a problem. My 2011 Sonata Turbo was front-engine, had a huge grill to take in air, and if you drove spiritedly, heat-soak was still a major issue that destroyed performance over time 'til you let it sit and cool off. I'd rather alleviate said heat-soak as much as possible with this car. So I'm debating functional open side rockers ducted partially to wheels for brake cooling and partially to under the decklid to further improve cool air flow there, with small, low-profile fans in the deck lid vents and a third, reverse-facing functional "scoop" with a fan blowing up and out through that. Get a thermostatic switch that's mounted by the center of the firewall that controls those three fans on their own circuit. Allow them to run, car on or off, but if the car is off, don't let them run more than a minute or two because battery rundown protection.
IP: Logged
trotterlg
Member
Posts: 1378
From: WA
Registered: Aug 2011


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2014 12:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know how you could get more air in the back, there is a hole clear to the ground that you can throw a Cat through. Larry
IP: Logged
Ravant
Member
Posts: 630
From: Garner, NC
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2014 08:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RavantSend a Private Message to RavantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by trotterlg:

I don't know how you could get more air in the back, there is a hole clear to the ground that you can throw a Cat through. Larry


Cats can fit through some tiny holes. Mine was an escape artist. She sadly died of old age when I was in high school, but point remains. It isn't so much as increasing volume as it is improving flow and the 'quality' of the air. There's plenty of volume, but it doesn't move much. I've noticed that, even with the stock iron duke, under-lid temps still stayed in the 55 to 65 degree Celsius range. That isn't scorching-hot but it is warm enough to be problematic for some accessories. My friend's '88 GT was a bit warmer with the 2.8. My hope is to drop that by 8-10 degrees C. That might be a bit too optimistic, but every little bit helps.
IP: Logged
Gall757
Member
Posts: 10652
From: Holland, MI
Registered: Jun 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 88
Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2014 09:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Ravant:
but every little bit helps.


Every little bit may not help if you are at all concerned about emissions and mileage. The engines were designed to run at 85 to 110*C, so it's no surprise to see 65*C under the lid. The quality of your components may be more of an issue than the ambient temperature. Everything should be very happy at that temp, except maybe your skin.
IP: Logged
Ravant
Member
Posts: 630
From: Garner, NC
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2014 09:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RavantSend a Private Message to RavantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:


Every little bit may not help if you are at all concerned about emissions and mileage. The engines were designed to run at 85 to 110*C, so it's no surprise to see 65*C under the lid. The quality of your components may be more of an issue than the ambient temperature. Everything should be very happy at that temp, except maybe your skin.


85-110 coolant temp. That's different than ambient temperatures. The thermostat and radiator control your operating temperature. Catalytic converters do operate better, warmer, to a point. But that's internal, not ambient temperature and is typically controlled by your EGT. Is also why most high quality cats are wrapped in heat shielding from the factory: keep the heat in and disallow ambient temperature bleed.

High ambient temperatures and heat soak are a performance killer, especially for forced induction applications. Coolant temps between 71 and 104 C depending on motor, are fine. (71 for a typical 60*v6, 104 for an average Northstar V8) But though my Eldorado ETC maintained 104 coolant all day, the ambient temps were typically kept between 32 and 54. And despite having a 303 horse V8 in a 3800+ pound vehicle, I averaged 27-31 mpg depending on how much highway cruise it saw.

[This message has been edited by Ravant (edited 04-10-2014).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 14175
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 190
Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2014 10:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The easiest and best way to reduce under hood temps is to control heat loss from the exhaust system. Polished aluminum heat shields, ceramic coatings, exhaust wrap are all viable alternatives.
IP: Logged
FIEROFLYER
Member
Posts: 3971
From:
Registered: Oct 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 178
Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2014 10:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
deck lid vents or reverse mounted scoops like the Mustang one are also a good way to get the heat out of the engine bay
IP: Logged
2.5
Member
Posts: 41078
From: Southern MN
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 178
Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2014 11:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rad fan that switches on earlier can help too. Or even a lower temp stat.
IP: Logged
Ravant
Member
Posts: 630
From: Garner, NC
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2014 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RavantSend a Private Message to RavantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Rad fan that switches on earlier can help too. Or even a lower temp stat.


Going to be using a 185 or 190 stat. Don't want to drop operating temps. Just the ambient temps. If the turbo turns out to raise temps a bit much, I'll modify the cooling system accordingly.
IP: Logged
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 14175
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 190
Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2014 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
More horsepower produces more heat, increasing load on coolant system. Cooling system also includes the oiling system, so an oil cooler is a good addition. The largest cause of heat in the engine bay is the exhaust system.
Moving more air helps, but keeping the heat in the exhaust system has other benefits to performance as well as keeping under hood temps lower.
Ceramic coating, wrap, highly reflective heat shields will work wonders.
Minimize the source of your heat.
IP: Logged
rogergarrison
Member
Posts: 49593
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 552
Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2014 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had the stock vents, although just a different looking grill, in my Ferrari kit. It had a turbo 3.1, 4 spd in it. I used a 160* thermostat and Rodneys 175* fan switch. Never had a problem ever on cross country road trips or traffic. Some people claim cooler underhood temps by putting a backwards scoop on the decklid with an electric fan blowing out of it.
IP: Logged
fierosound
Member
Posts: 14501
From: Calgary, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 280
Rate this member

Report this Post04-11-2014 03:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here we go again! Fiero is a "bottom breather".

BUT the Fi-Air-O scoops were designed for the 84's with vent in the decklid (side panels are solid).
They can be made very functional and get lots of air into the engine bay.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/093730.html

The center "Indy" scoop is the one that is totally cosmetic.



------------------
Calgary time/temp

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT Click me
Super Duty 4 Indy #163 Click me

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-11-2014).]

IP: Logged
jaskispyder
Member
Posts: 21510
From: Northern MI
Registered: Jun 2002


Feedback score:    (22)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 205
Rate this member

Report this Post04-11-2014 08:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Agreed. Also... wasn't the Indy scoop feeding the engine intake?

 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

Here we go again! Fiero is a "bottom breather".

BUT the Fi-Air-O scoops were designed for the 84's with vent in the decklid (side panels are solid).
They can be made very functional and get lots of air into the engine bay.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/093730.html

The center "Indy" scoop is the one that is totally cosmetic.




IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post04-11-2014 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder:

Agreed. Also... wasn't the Indy scoop feeding the engine intake?



On the original true SD4 pasce car, yes. On the replicas, no, it was only cosmetic.

While the scoops that replace the vents might result in air going into the engine bay, it is counter-productive. The car is designed to have air come up out of those vents, not go down into the engine bay. Having the scoops is mostly cosmetic here as well, because what you get functionally, is a small increase in drag (as you're fighting the designed air flow of the car), and a slight reduction in MPG to go with it. They do not do anything at all to actually provide any improvement to performance. If you want to get any actual performance increase with them, you're going to have to do some significant modification to your car, to get the normal airflow up and out of the engine bay, as well as the increased air volume you're now forcing down into the bay.
IP: Logged
Ravant
Member
Posts: 630
From: Garner, NC
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-11-2014 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RavantSend a Private Message to RavantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What dobey explained is why I asked in the first place. That is precisely why I intend to duct air from scooped quarter panels to three places each. Driver's side will cup ambient air to engine intake, brake duct and low in the engine bay. Passenger side will duct to a heat exchanger for an air:water intercooler, passenger brake and low in the engine bay. Up top, I'm going to leave the side vents to convect naturally, but also add a rearward-facing scoop with a 7-10 inch fan evacuating air through that section. This is subject to change depending on how the engine sits in the bay and what my fabrication abilities will allow. (I've only ever done light bodywork. This would be a bigger deal than filling holes from a removed spoiler or luggage rack.)
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 14175
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 190
Rate this member

Report this Post04-11-2014 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's a lot of work and expense for little to no gain in cooling......
IP: Logged
Ravant
Member
Posts: 630
From: Garner, NC
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-11-2014 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RavantSend a Private Message to RavantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

That's a lot of work and expense for little to no gain in cooling......


A heat exchanger without airflow is a useless heat exchanger. I could put the exchanger under one of the existing vents, but then it isn't ambient air, rather heat soaked air, considerably reducing the intercooler's effectiveness by up to 50%. That's pretty significant on a turbocharged car. The other ducting is marginal in its gains, but oil cooler and heat exchanger getting fresh airflow is pretty significant.
IP: Logged
Steven Snyder
Member
Posts: 3311
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Mar 2004


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 106
Rate this member

Report this Post04-11-2014 03:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Ravant:

What dobey explained is why I asked in the first place. That is precisely why I intend to duct air from scooped quarter panels to three places each. Driver's side will cup ambient air to engine intake, brake duct and low in the engine bay. Passenger side will duct to a heat exchanger for an air:water intercooler, passenger brake and low in the engine bay. Up top, I'm going to leave the side vents to convect naturally, but also add a rearward-facing scoop with a 7-10 inch fan evacuating air through that section. This is subject to change depending on how the engine sits in the bay and what my fabrication abilities will allow. (I've only ever done light bodywork. This would be a bigger deal than filling holes from a removed spoiler or luggage rack.)


Sounds like a good plan. The only thing I would suggest doing some testing on before you install it is the rear-facing scoop. Depending on the height, position, and whether or not you have a spoiler, the vortex that rolls off of the bottom of the rear fascia can cause air to flow into that scoop.

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 04-11-2014).]

IP: Logged
Ravant
Member
Posts: 630
From: Garner, NC
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-11-2014 03:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RavantSend a Private Message to RavantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:


Sounds like a good plan. The only thing I would suggest doing some testing on before you install it is the rear-facing scoop. Depending on the height, position, and whether or not you have a spoiler, the vortex that rolls off of the bottom of the rear fascia can cause air to flow into that scoop.


This is the only part that has me weary. I need to see what my options are there. Scoop might not be the best description for what I'm thinking there. Center vent, but where the holes are, is currently up for debate. Body work + turbo is down the line, so I have some time to test before it becomes a concern.
IP: Logged
rogergarrison
Member
Posts: 49593
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 552
Rate this member

Report this Post04-11-2014 06:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ferraris work the same way. Some models ( F-40 for ex) just have expanded metal for a rear body 'panel' to let all the hot air out the back. Plenty always comes in the bottom and the problem is getting rid of it.
IP: Logged
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 14175
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 190
Rate this member

Report this Post04-11-2014 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The over the top scoops are useless.....but if you like the look, consider portioning the scoop so that the back portion of the base is a vent for the engine bay, and the scoop is ducted separately out of the exhaust flow airstream. Two ducts in a common housing as it were.

IP: Logged
Xyster
Member
Posts: 1444
From: Great Falls MT
Registered: Apr 2011


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2014 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for XysterSend a Private Message to XysterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



*Visuals for the original question.
* Right here on the forum

[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 04-12-2014).]

IP: Logged
Steven Snyder
Member
Posts: 3311
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Mar 2004


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 106
Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2014 01:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for posting those.

You can clearly see the airflow going forward in the notch area above the decklid.

The simulation doesn't model underbody or engine bay airflow, so that obviously interacts with the airflow over the decklid. It's possible for that area to become a stagnation zone if there isn't enough energy in the airflow exiting the engine vents.
IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post04-12-2014 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:

Thanks for posting those.

You can clearly see the airflow going forward in the notch area above the decklid.

The simulation doesn't model underbody or engine bay airflow, so that obviously interacts with the airflow over the decklid. It's possible for that area to become a stagnation zone if there isn't enough energy in the airflow exiting the engine vents.


The stock spoiler helps with this though. It's much worse with no spoiler. I'd think a lip spoiler instead of the factory spoiler would be even better at helping to prevent air from going back up over the decklid. A Ferrari-style roof spoiler would probably also help to direct airflow down and out the back, but might not look nice, and would interfere with opening of the decklid.
IP: Logged
Ravant
Member
Posts: 630
From: Garner, NC
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2014 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RavantSend a Private Message to RavantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wonder how an Evo-style set of vortex generators (the black fin-things lining the back of the roof on the Mitsubishi Evo) on the roof would do? Not my personal cup o' tea when it comes to styling, but effectiveness? It's really just a thought experiment at the moment.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post04-12-2014 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Ravant:

I wonder how an Evo-style set of vortex generators (the black fin-things lining the back of the roof on the Mitsubishi Evo) on the roof would do? Not my personal cup o' tea when it comes to styling, but effectiveness? It's really just a thought experiment at the moment.


On a street Evo, they're basically useless I think, and only there for style. Remember, the Evo body kit is adopted from the off-road rally car, and it looks like those fins would disrupt air flow, to prevent it sticking to the body as it flows over the rear of the car, which I think would reduce downforce. Maybe useful on a track Evo, but entirely useless on a street car when you want the rear to stick to the ground as much as possible. And given the questions you're asking about cooling, I don't think it would help at all.
IP: Logged
rogergarrison
Member
Posts: 49593
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 552
Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2014 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just think it out realisticly first. Are any gains you might get worth all the effort, expense and time you spend ?

Just a random make believe setup : You spend $500 for scoops, take say 30 hours of time, repaint modified parts after you make up a plan that also takes time. You get .3 mph speed increase and gain .2 mpg, and you drop engine bay temp by 2 degrees.......then decide if it was time well spent .... Now if you do it JUST for looks, and you like it...it is time well spent.

Lots of people, myself included sometimes, tend to over think or over complicate things. Theres a lot of stock Fieros with no added aero scoops that run as cool as theyre supposed to.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 04-12-2014).]

IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock