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3.0 pulley on 3800 SC by Eglaore
Started on: 04-07-2014 05:13 PM
Replies: 33 (1174 views)
Last post by: DimeMachine on 04-25-2014 05:44 PM
Eglaore
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Report this Post04-07-2014 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EglaoreSend a Private Message to EglaoreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I bought a 3" pulley about 8 years back when I originally started this project and I'm seeing a lot of different responses about what you need to do to the motor to get smaller pulleys to run.

I have a XP Hot Cam, ported heads and intake, roller rockers, 42# injectors.

What do I have to do other than program the computer for it to get the motor to run correctly with the 3" pulley?
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Report this Post04-07-2014 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You dont have to tune anything, but a 3.0 is pretty aggressive for the novice that isnt going to make sure everything is running correctly. a 3.2 would be a safer bet to start out with and if you get some scan tools and do some research go into the 3.0 and smaller area.

Also, you will want to switch out the roller rockers for stock.
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Eglaore
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Report this Post04-07-2014 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EglaoreSend a Private Message to EglaoreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why would I want to go back to the stock rockers?
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nosrac
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Report this Post04-07-2014 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Eglaore:

Why would I want to go back to the stock rockers?


They suposedly perform better than the rollers.

Do you have a scanner? As long as you consistently monitor for KR you should be fine. Get a (MPS)multi pulley system that way you can easily pulley up or down when needed.

Also, An Intercooler, E85 or both would hook your right up.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post04-07-2014 11:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:


They suposedly perform better than the rollers.

Do you have a scanner? As long as you consistently monitor for KR you should be fine. Get a (MPS)multi pulley system that way you can easily pulley up or down when needed.

Also, An Intercooler, E85 or both would hook your right up.


Its been more than confirmed that roller rockers suck.
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post04-07-2014 11:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Eglaore:

I bought a 3" pulley about 8 years back when I originally started this project and I'm seeing a lot of different responses about what you need to do to the motor to get smaller pulleys to run.

I have a XP Hot Cam, ported heads and intake, roller rockers, 42# injectors.

What do I have to do other than program the computer for it to get the motor to run correctly with the 3" pulley?


Sell 3.0 pulley for an appropriate size pulley to match ur MODs or add appropriate MODs to run the 3.0 pulley.
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Eglaore
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Report this Post04-08-2014 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EglaoreSend a Private Message to EglaoreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for all the responses, I will either get an intercooler or go with a 3.2 inch.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post04-08-2014 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wouldn't let people tell you a 3.0 is wrong really... its what ive always ran on typical xp cam setups but its one of those things that if you are not going to pay attention to things I wouldnt risk it.
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Eglaore
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Report this Post04-08-2014 04:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EglaoreSend a Private Message to EglaoreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So if I use a 3.0 I will constantly have to monitor for KR, but you think with a 3.2 I should be safe without constant survalance?
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post04-08-2014 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Eglaore:

So if I use a 3.0 I will constantly have to monitor for KR, but you think with a 3.2 I should be safe without constant survalance?


Constantly... no... I mean if it works it works, but I wouldnt really do it without having a wideband around, or a scan gauge just to make sure you dont lean out due to fuel trims, or fuel pressure, or whatever... anything under a 3.2 is where you get into trouble with stuff like maf sensors, injectors, etc as well.
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post04-08-2014 11:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Eglaore:

So if I use a 3.0 I will constantly have to monitor for KR, but you think with a 3.2 I should be safe without constant survalance?


Just stick with the 3.25 pulley and always monitor for KR no matter what pulley until u know how the motor runs and how it should sound/feel.
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nosrac
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Report this Post04-08-2014 11:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Eglaore:

Thanks for all the responses, I will either get an intercooler or go with a 3.2 inch.


What Gen Blower...III or V? Is the blower ported? That make a huge difference in pulley size you SHOULD run too.

However, Get and IC and use e85 then you can run a 2.6 pulley....lol
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Eglaore
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Report this Post04-09-2014 03:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EglaoreSend a Private Message to EglaoreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ok, Thanks for all the responses and information.
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Eglaore
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Report this Post04-12-2014 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EglaoreSend a Private Message to EglaoreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One more question, I have the modular pulley from zzperformance, any tips on getting the stock pulley off the supercharger?
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sco77
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Report this Post04-12-2014 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sco77Click Here to Email sco77Send a Private Message to sco77Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Eglaore:

One more question, I have the modular pulley from zzperformance, any tips on getting the stock pulley off the supercharger?


Yes... Use the proper tool specific for the M90 like the zzp puller, never attempt to use a standard pulley puller on an M90.

------------------
86 Fiero GT 4spd - L67 swap: VS cam, GenV
98 GTP - Some mods

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Report this Post04-12-2014 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
E85 will make things a lot more safe. You could run a 2.8 pulley no problem as long as the injectors can keep up. A few guys made more power with E85 after they removed their intercooler.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
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Eglaore
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Report this Post04-17-2014 03:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EglaoreSend a Private Message to EglaoreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok so I finally got the stock pulley off, whats the best way to put the mount for the modular pulley system on?
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85sliverGT
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Report this Post04-17-2014 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85sliverGTClick Here to Email 85sliverGTSend a Private Message to 85sliverGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Eglaore:

Ok so I finally got the stock pulley off, whats the best way to put the mount for the modular pulley system on?


With the same supercharger pulley puller that you should use to remove the pulley...
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fieroaddicted
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Report this Post04-17-2014 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroaddictedClick Here to Email fieroaddictedSend a Private Message to fieroaddictedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok so not to hijack this thread, but I'd like some input on my setup as well and don't want to start another thread on the same thing. Just wondering whether you think I may be in the safe zone (if there is one) or if i may need to do some other things. I am thinking on running a 3.25 pulley on my engine which has a vs cam, dbl roller set, stock lifters, 60lb injectors, 125lb springs and retainers, ported intake, ported sc (bottom corners removed), bit of porting done down near the valve seats in the heads, 3" dual exhaust.
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nosrac
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Report this Post04-17-2014 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroaddicted:

Ok so not to hijack this thread, but I'd like some input on my setup as well and don't want to start another thread on the same thing. Just wondering whether you think I may be in the safe zone (if there is one) or if i may need to do some other things. I am thinking on running a 3.25 pulley on my engine which has a vs cam, dbl roller set, stock lifters, 60lb injectors, 125lb springs and retainers, ported intake, ported sc (bottom corners removed), bit of porting done down near the valve seats in the heads, 3" dual exhaust.


What octane gas? That is one of the main determining factors on how low u can go.
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fieroaddicted
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Report this Post04-17-2014 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroaddictedClick Here to Email fieroaddictedSend a Private Message to fieroaddictedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No e 85 around here easily accessible. Just high grade fuel at the pumps. So like 91 octane. I suppose I could run an additive if that stuff even really works.
troy

[This message has been edited by fieroaddicted (edited 04-18-2014).]

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Report this Post04-19-2014 02:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know that I would build the engine to REQUIRE High Quality Gas, not like we can expect the quality of gasoline to get any Better. (that's just me, always an optimist) LOL
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Report this Post04-23-2014 06:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dumb question: When you change to a modular pulley, do you have to get a smaller belt or anything else or is it just change the pulley and go ?

By the way, what is the stock pulley - 3.8 ?

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 04-23-2014).]

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Report this Post04-23-2014 07:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:

Dumb question: When you change to a modular pulley, do you have to get a smaller belt or anything else or is it just change the pulley and go ?

By the way, what is the stock pulley - 3.8 ?



The stock pulley is 3.8...U can use the same belt down to a 3.4 pulley....Belt will of course not be as tight but with that large of a pullwy there is no issue..
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Report this Post04-24-2014 02:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


The stock pulley is 3.8...U can use the same belt down to a 3.4 pulley....Belt will of course not be as tight but with that large of a pullwy there is no issue.



Thanks. It looks like that might be my first easiest upgrade. The rocker arm, springs and retainers change frightened the mechanic when he looked at the side of the engine underneath the back window (he didn't think he'd be able to get to everything he needed to change).
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Report this Post04-24-2014 07:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:


Thanks. It looks like that might be my first easiest upgrade. The rocker arm, springs and retainers change frightened the mechanic when he looked at the side of the engine underneath the back window (he didn't think he'd be able to get to everything he needed to change).


If changing rear springs and rockers scares ur mechanic then u should start looking for a new mechanic...Not a hard job at all..
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Report this Post04-24-2014 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would also like some input on pulley size... I have a SIII (So GEN V M90). Engine is pretty much stock for now. I have a wideband and DHP Tuner. I guess I can upgrade injectors and depending how difficult, I can pop a cam in there... I just really want to get it running nice before I upgrade things and end up chasing my tail...
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Report this Post04-24-2014 03:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sco77Click Here to Email sco77Send a Private Message to sco77Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


If changing rear springs and rockers scares ur mechanic then u should start looking for a new mechanic...Not a hard job at all..


Exactly. When I first got my 3800 started in the car, it started pouring out smoke because the incompetent machine shop that did my heads installed wrong valve seals, I replaced all valve seals in the matter of about 1 hour IN THE CAR.

------------------
86 Fiero GT 4spd - L67 swap: VS cam, GenV
98 GTP - Some mods

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Report this Post04-24-2014 09:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Purple86GT:

I would also like some input on pulley size... I have a SIII (So GEN V M90). Engine is pretty much stock for now. I have a wideband and DHP Tuner. I guess I can upgrade injectors and depending how difficult, I can pop a cam in there... I just really want to get it running nice before I upgrade things and end up chasing my tail...


I have a 3800 SC series III engine modified to a Series II type to get away from drive by wire. It has a N* TV, VS cam, larger injectors, intercooler, and a tame/reliable tune. This engine still dynos at around 300 HP and 300 ft lbs of torque at the wheels. I believe that I can run a 3.2 or 3.0 pullet with very little change except for a new tune. I actually have a 3.0 pulley sitting in the basement but have not installed it because I am lazy and really do not need any more performance.

Nelson
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Report this Post04-24-2014 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
what everyone is saying is that its possible to run the 3" pulley, EXEPT if you haven't tuned the computer to compensate for the increased boost, its going to run a little off of where the correct air/fuel ratio should be, enough so that it could ruin the motor from running too lean in this case.

im learning about this with the cam manufacturer I have and the tuner im in contact with, too high of boost, or too low of vacuum from where the stock tune is set at and you're going to run into either being too rich or too lean.

ALSO have to mind the ignition knock (ping) with the kr monitoring. the s/c engines tune wasnt meant to run 87, they can but they shouldn't... 93 is probably what every performance build will end up using, if they care about their engines... OR they tune for it.
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Report this Post04-24-2014 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by AL87:

what everyone is saying is that its possible to run the 3" pulley, EXEPT if you haven't tuned the computer to compensate for the increased boost, its going to run a little off of where the correct air/fuel ratio should be, enough so that it could ruin the motor from running too lean in this case.

im learning about this with the cam manufacturer I have and the tuner im in contact with, too high of boost, or too low of vacuum from where the stock tune is set at and you're going to run into either being too rich or too lean.

ALSO have to mind the ignition knock (ping) with the kr monitoring. the s/c engines tune wasnt meant to run 87, they can but they shouldn't... 93 is probably what every performance build will end up using, if they care about their engines... OR they tune for it.


No....u need the right MODs to run a 3.0 pulley..Wether it be an IC, cam, headers...Injectors, E-85..ect
Running a 3.0 pulley by just changing tunes is not the way to go about it..

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Report this Post04-25-2014 10:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I decided to go smaller on a pulley and installed a 3.4" on my series III that has the Gen V supercharger. The increase in boost was very significant. Even with the improved exhaust, 180* stat, Autolite 104's, large CAI system, LS1 MAF , N* Throttle body it became impossible to remove all of the KR's. More fuel and even a slight cutback in timing didn't change that. Finally went back to the OEM settings in the tune w a tiny bit more fuel at AE, and installed a ZZP SSIC. Problem solved.
Now my experience was with the series III 3800/gen V supercharger. Results on a series II engine will be different but with a 3" pulley I really doubt that you will run knock free without an intercooler.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post04-25-2014 03:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kikinz24Click Here to Email kikinz24Send a Private Message to kikinz24Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I built my gp and it was a series 2 up I went for a 2.8" (it was free). And I was running pretty mucj the same setup. Had horrible kr.. until I ran an alky/meth setup then it was "driveable". I was still scared to get all the way into it esp on a hot day. The fiero is alot lighter and helps with kr but honestlly you need extra cooling. Whether its a stacked ic or a alky/meth injection setup.
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Report this Post04-25-2014 05:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DimeMachineSend a Private Message to DimeMachineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:

E85 will make things a lot more safe. You could run a 2.8 pulley no problem as long as the injectors can keep up. A few guys made more power with E85 after they removed their intercooler.



True words.

------------------
84/87 NB, 3800SC, E-85, VS Cam, 2.8 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 1/4 mile -11.85 at 114mph

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