Got an '88 4-cyl Coupe, all stock.

Parked it in the garage due to a worn-out clutch. Was starting and running fine when it was parked. Planned to replace the clutch and keep on driving it, so didn't do anything towards long-term storage of the car or the fuel system.

That was 6 years ago.

I need to get this thing running again. I'd like to get it started and running before I bother doing the clutch job. Going to put it on jackstands because the tires are not trustworthy. Has about a half-tank of gas in it.

Questions - do I have to drop the tank and get rid of the old gas before trying to start it, or can I add some sort of chemical stabilizer or high-octane fuel to mix with what's in the tank? Replace fuel filter first?

I can think of a lot of things I *might* have to do, but really don't have the time or energy to do more than what is neccesary. Just don't want to screw things up trying to get it running again because it always ran great before it sat for so long.

Learned, experience advice is welcome and requested. Thanks in advance!

------------------
Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com

1988 Fiero Formula - Automoda convertible
repainted PPG Ferrari 'Giallo Modena' yellow

I would disconnect the fuel line at the filter, jumper the fuel pump and empty the tank. Oil the cylinders, hand crank the engine a few rotations, get new gas and filter...and go for it. It depends a lot on storage conditions....humidity etc.

quote Originally posted by Gall757: I would disconnect the fuel line at the filter, jumper the fuel pump and empty the tank. Oil the cylinders, hand crank the engine a few rotations, get new gas and filter...and go for it. It depends a lot on storage conditions....humidity etc.

Now would be a good time to change the oil too. May have water or sludge buildup in the system. Be prepared for the fuel pump to have to be changed. As the fuel sits for extended periods, it changes significantly. It is likely that the connection hose between the pump and the sending unit may have decomposed and broken apart (mine turned to goo). The remains of the fuel may also plug up the sock filter...and your injector as well. Make sure you add some injector cleaner into the new fuel when you are ready to start the car.

Yea, after 6 years that gas is all varnish and quite semi-solid.

I would do what Gall said, disconnect the gas line and drain the tank with the pump, but then I would try to drop the tank and clean it all out.

Oil would probably be good to change too, as well as try to use compressed air to blow any fuel out of the lines that has been in their for 6 years.

Sounds like it'd be better to drop the tank and clean it out *before* trying to send all that old gas through it?

I hadn't thought about the oil - great idea.

Haven't got compressed air available to blow out the lines.

I've never dealt with old gas before - it'll be a learning experience.

You may find it difficult to drop a half-full gas tank.

Good advice above. If the engine is coming out for a clutch change, why start it until you've renewed the fuel, oil & coolant systems?

But... if you want to see if it'll start just for fun, turn the engine by the belt or a wrench on the crank shaft. If it turns, turn the key & listen for the pump to run then stop if the pressure builds. If that happens, engage the starter just for the fun of seeing if it starts. If it starts, let it run for a while to see if the temperature starts the rad fan. If everything works ok, do an oil change, & coolant flush. You may find the brakes need more attention than the engine...

If the pump doesn't work, lower the tank with a roller floor jack & a couple of helpers to balance it.

quote Originally posted by David Hambleton: Good advice above. If the engine is coming out for a clutch change, why start it until you've renewed the fuel, oil & coolant systems? But... if you want to see if it'll start just for fun, turn the engine by the belt or a wrench on the crank shaft. If it turns, turn the key & listen for the pump to run then stop if the pressure builds. If that happens, engage the starter just for the fun of seeing if it starts. If it starts, let it run for a while to see if the temperature starts the rad fan. If everything works ok, do an oil change, & coolant flush. You may find the brakes need more attention than the engine... If the pump doesn't work, lower the tank with a roller floor jack & a couple of helpers to balance it.

The engine's not coming out - I lower the rear of the cradle and pull the transmission out the driver's side fenderwell (done it a few times on 88's).

What I'm trying to ascertain is whether or not to bother doing the clutch.

If the engine/fuel system/etc. is FUBAR'd or is going to take a HUGE amount of effort and expense to get it running again, then I won't bother with the clutch and I now have a parts car to donate towards extending the lifespan of my Formula convertible. However, I'd rather have a running Coupe than a parts car.

Dropping the tank, changing the fuel pump, those things don't bother me, been there, done that. Tearing the engine down to get it going again - not gonna happen anytime soon.

If I can get the engine running, I then replace the clutch and tires and at least move it around under its own power. (I'm aware it will need other attention before it becomes a daily driver, like checking brakes, brakelines, etc.) If the engine won't run with some relatively simple effort, then if it comes time to move it, it'll be towed without me having to worry about the clutch for now.

Well ok, now I'm a little confused. Considering your experience, I suspect your guess is as good as anyone's whether it'll run or not. It ran fine before; why not now? Fresh fuel certainly can't hurt...

I think a lot of people would be interested in the clutch replacement process without engine removal. How much do you lower the cradle to get enough clearance? Have you considered making a thread to document it?

I have an 85 2M4 that sat outside for at least 8 years before I got it. I had to drop the tank and have it cleaned and also replaced the fuel pump and fuel filter. As was said before I had to do the brakes with all new calipers and pads. Before I ever turned the engine over by hand I put a little mmo in each cylinder and turned it over with the spark plugs out. It runs great now.

quote Originally posted by David Hambleton: Well ok, now I'm a little confused. Considering your experience, I suspect your guess is as good as anyone's whether it'll run or not. It ran fine before; why not now? Fresh fuel certainly can't hurt... I think a lot of people would be interested in the clutch replacement process without engine removal. How much do you lower the cradle to get enough clearance? Have you considered making a thread to document it?

I know there are plenty of people here that have resurrected poorly-stored Fieros - that's the advice I'm trying to get, because I've never before now owned a car that I could allow to sit unused for 6 years. I just don't know what they did or were careful about that led to their success, or what they might have done or failed to do that led to thei failure.

The clutch replacement process is based on much info I have gotten here at Pennock's - the last time I did it was about ten years ago. It wasn't a technique that I personally came up with, otherwise I'd happily describe it in detail. But either way, that's for a separate thread.

The Haynes manual actually outlines how to replace the clutch without pulling the engine.

I would detach the fuel line from the filter, and then run the fuel pump to see the condition of the fuel. If it is rusty and had crude, you should drop the tank. Otherwise, give it a shot and run it. The fuel pump intake sock may clog over time, but again, the tank may be ok. The gas may not be fresh, but the car will run on it.

I literally just went through this with an '85 that sat for five years.

1) Disconnect the fuel line before the filter. Jumper the fuel pump until empty. That gas will screw things up when burned, but still should be fine to empty via pump. This will give you the opportunity to check fuel pump strength. Gas should spray out, not just trickle.
2) Check peripherals. My starter was going bad when I parked it. Sitting was not kind to it. I had to replace it. My alternator also seized. Had to replace that. So getting some oil into the top end of the engine and hand-cranking the engine to pre-lube the pistons is important. It will let you make sure everything attached to your crank via belt still actually spins. Check your belts at this time too, make sure they aren't cracked.
3) Oil change as well as a proper coolant change. Oil change because it's old and its effectiveness is long gone. Coolant change with a proper 'burp' because evaporation over time may have caused air bubbles in the system. (This happened to me. A flush/fill fixed it.) Thermostat may be sticky. Replace it while you are refilling the coolant.
4) Finally, check your tires. Sitting over time can cause them to crack in places that are not in contact with the ground. Not only will this cause balancing issues, trusting them to not blow out might be... difficult.

This shouldn't take too much time to go through. I did this all in two days, outside, in borderline arctic temperatures on Long Island. (A Friday and Saturday.) By Sunday, I was driving it. I drove it from Shirley, NY to Raleigh, NC on that Sunday with no issues to speak of. In fact, the car is currently running better/more reliably than my wife's 2000 MR2 Spyder. (We had to put a new engine in her spyder because the precats collapsed and got sucked into the engine. Replaced the engine, removed the precats, but kept the stock cat, which is now plugged with precat, preventing the new motor from running correctly. Need to put in a new cat.)

[This message has been edited by Ravant (edited 03-24-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Ravant: I literally just went through this with an '85 that sat for five years. 1) Disconnect the fuel line before the filter. Jumper the fuel pump until empty. That gas will screw things up when burned, but still should be fine to empty via pump. This will give you the opportunity to check fuel pump strength. Gas should spray out, not just trickle. 2) Check peripherals. My starter was going bad when I parked it. Sitting was not kind to it. I had to replace it. My alternator also seized. Had to replace that. So getting some oil into the top end of the engine and hand-cranking the engine to pre-lube the pistons is important. It will let you make sure everything attached to your crank via belt still actually spins. Check your belts at this time too, make sure they aren't cracked. 3) Oil change as well as a proper coolant change. Oil change because it's old and its effectiveness is long gone. Coolant change with a proper 'burp' because evaporation over time may have caused air bubbles in the system. (This happened to me. A flush/fill fixed it.) Thermostat may be sticky. Replace it while you are refilling the coolant. 4) Finally, check your tires. Sitting over time can cause them to crack in places that are not in contact with the ground. Not only will this cause balancing issues, trusting them to not blow out might be... difficult. This shouldn't take too much time to go through. I did this all in two days, outside, in borderline arctic temperatures on Long Island. (A Friday and Saturday.) By Sunday, I was driving it. I drove it from Shirley, NY to Raleigh, NC on that Sunday with no issues to speak of. In fact, the car is currently running better/more reliably than my wife's 2000 MR2 Spyder. (We had to put a new engine in her spyder because the precats collapsed and got sucked into the engine. Replaced the engine, removed the precats, but kept the stock cat, which is now plugged with precat, preventing the new motor from running correctly. Need to put in a new cat.)

Awesome info - thanks everybody, I think this helps a lot.

Also, small world, Ravant! I used to live in Garner - been in the Raleigh area for 30 years. If you've seen a yellow convertible Fiero rolling around Raleigh/Garner/Fuquay/Holly Springs, that was me!

I'm still concerned about ruining the fuel pump by sending semi-solidified gas through it - this really won't destroy the pump? Just making sure...

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: Awesome info - thanks everybody, I think this helps a lot. Also, small world, Ravant! I used to live in Garner - been in the Raleigh area for 30 years. If you've seen a yellow convertible Fiero rolling around Raleigh/Garner/Fuquay/Holly Springs, that was me! I'm still concerned about ruining the fuel pump by sending semi-solidified gas through it - this really won't destroy the pump? Just making sure...

Do you know the condition of the fuel? I bought an old '73 international truck that was sitting for YEARS, and it had old, brown fuel in it. But it ran, and the fuel was not thick, etc... it was just old smelly gas.

Also, if the fuel is "semi-solid", I would replace the pump anyway.

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 03-24-2014).]

No, I'm unsure about the condition of the fuel - all I know is that it was 85 octane automotive fuel, it had a bit less than 1/2 tank when it was parked, and that it has been sitting untouched in my garage for 6 years with the fuel cap closed. I've done a lot of things with repairing running Fieros over the years, but this scenario is new to me. I've only heard outside info of what happens to automotive fuel over time but have no direct experience.

I just don't want to screw up a formerly-decently-running engine by doing the wrong thing.

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: No, I'm unsure about the condition of the fuel - all I know is that it was 85 octane automotive fuel, it had a bit less than 1/2 tank when it was parked, and that it has been sitting untouched in my garage for 6 years with the fuel cap closed. I've done a lot of things with repairing running Fieros over the years, but this scenario is new to me. I've only heard outside info of what happens to automotive fuel over time but have no direct experience. I just don't want to screw up a formerly-decently-running engine by doing the wrong thing.

I would just disconnect the line to the fuel filter and run the pump to remove old fuel, then pour in some new fuel. If the old fuel is really brown, then you have rust in the tank. I wouldn't go to extremes, until you know what the fuel looks like. As I said.... I had old brown fuel running in a carb. Yes, I had a filter and yes it ran fine. I ran the rest of the old gas in my lawnmower without an issue.

I have had Fieros sitting multiple years on old gas and no issues starting and running them. Same for other GM cars.

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: Awesome info - thanks everybody, I think this helps a lot. Also, small world, Ravant! I used to live in Garner - been in the Raleigh area for 30 years. If you've seen a yellow convertible Fiero rolling around Raleigh/Garner/Fuquay/Holly Springs, that was me! I'm still concerned about ruining the fuel pump by sending semi-solidified gas through it - this really won't destroy the pump? Just making sure...

The worst part of that gas will be condensation in it. It will be brownish and smell terrible, but it won't be semi-solid. It won't varnish until it's heated. It won't heat until it reaches the engine. It's highly doubtful it will damage your pump. Recommend disconnecting the fuel line before the filter, get a clear container over 1 pint you don't care about throwing away, and turn the key to let the fuel pump try to prime the system. See what comes out. This will only run the pump for ~2-3 seconds, so if the gas is super-bad, it won't cause issues. Only time I've ever seen gas go gelatinous to the point of ruining a low pressure fuel pump was in a car that sat for 15 years outdoors. High-pressure pumps (30+psi) are subject to seizing though. Seeing as the iron duke's fuel pump is a relatively low pressure unit, it should be fine. If what comes out is liquid, jumper the fuel pump test at the ALDL port in your armrest and drain that way.

I just moved to Garner 2 years ago. Was in north Raleigh for 3 years before that, and Long Island before that. I may have seen it. What I saw a lot of was a red notchie with a V8 swap on 540 between 70 and Leesville.

Excellent info. That helps me feel a lot better about how to go about it and what warning signs to look out for.

Thanks very much, everybody that commented! I just might get this l'il Iron Duke running yet! Pluses all around if you didn't already have them!

[This message has been edited by LZeitgeist (edited 03-24-2014).]

FYI, the filter will stop anything from getting into the injector. So, really, you don't have much to lose. Replacement fuel pumps are less than $100. I changed mine out in my '88 coupe. The pump died, as many Fiero pumps do

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: FYI, the filter will stop anything from getting into the injector. So, really, you don't have much to lose. Replacement fuel pumps are less than $100. I changed mine out in my '88 coupe. The pump died, as many Fiero pumps do

Yeah, just replaced the fuel pump in my Formula about 6 months or so ago - no big deal. Not scared of that job if/when it's just gotta happen.

Bringing the Indy back to the light of day after 6 years?
Why do I expect a gigantic boulder to roll out of your attic into the garage while you're working on it?

I'm not sure - a boulder is one of the few things I actually don't have up in the attic.

Update!

OK, spent all day Sunday doing the following:

Put car on four jackstands and removed wheels (wheels won't go back on until all work is finished - tires are not to be trusted due to time/age/potential dryrot).

Dropped gas tank - removed sending unit/pump assembly.

Fuel inside wasn't gummy - slightly discolored but completely liquid. Felt around inside tank on various surfaces fuel was in contact with - didn't notice any residue or stickiness, etc., so emptied tank and (properly) disposed of old gas.

Pick-up filter was trashed - glad I didn't run the pump, as filter would have disintegrated and pieces gotten sucked into pump. Rubber mounting parts were dried out and crumbly - short rubber fuel line at top of pump was in decent-enough shape but upon removal left a bunch of crud attached to metal tube.

Went to store, bought new fuel pump, pick-up filter, inline fuel filter, oil & oil filter and bottle of fuel treatment (found the one that most prominently mentioned 'removes gum and varnish'). Came home, poured fuel treatment in tank, sloshed it around to clean it up a bit, cleaned up the connections, etc., installed the new pump & pick-up filter, reinstalled into tank, reinstalled tank into car and poured about 3 or 4 gallons of fresh gas into the tank to mix with the fuel treatment.

Installed new inline fuel filter while reinstalling fuel tank and reconnecting lines.

Pulled out each spark plug (one at a time) and poured maybe 1/4-teaspoon of oil into each cylinder to sit and hopefully loosen up the rings from the cylinder walls. Reinstalled spark plugs and boots.

Changed the oil and filter (been a LONG time since I changed the oil in an '88 4-banger with the internal oil filter!).

Borrowed battery from the Formula and installed into the Coupe.

Sat in the driver's seat, noting that the dome lights came on as they should - good, got power.

Pressed in the clutch pedal, put it in neutral, took a deep breath and turned the key...

Nothing.

No whine from the fuel pump, no idiot lights, no gauge flickers, nothing.

Tried again - no change.

Tried the lights - got power there. Brake lights work, headlights work, parking lights work, no radio, no defroster fan, nothing whatsoever inside the car.

*sigh*

A whole day of sweaty, dirty work, a couple hundred dollars in various and sundry parts, and nothing (yet) to show for it. Depressing.

Called Formula88 to come over (since he's right next door) to assist in troubleshooting a bit before I gave up for the day - yeah, he's seeing the same stuff I am. (He did generously provide me with a new battery connection stud he happened to have on hand - the old one was pretty stripped out, but no change in the results for the day.)

Am wondering if the steering column I got in the Mall in January is the culprit - jeeze, I hate electrical troubleshooting. (Had removed the original steering column and disassembled it a few years back to fix the mid-column wobble problem and some random part sprung out from somewhere during reassembly - looked for info, couldn't find any to tell what the part was or where it was supposed to go since it was not part of the disassembly/reassembly process - it just wasn't addressed anywhere - so I wasn't able to reassemble the original column while everything was fresh in my mind. I guess I'll swap in the ignition switch from the old column into the current one and hope it's something simple like that...)

The saga continues...

------------------
Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com

1988 Fiero Formula - Automoda convertible
repainted PPG Ferrari 'Giallo Modena' yellow

This is why every time I change out a fuel pump I plug in the sending unit (with the new pump) before installing it in the tank....just to make sure the pump works before installing everything else. Hopefully it's something simple....good luck.

quote Originally posted by mrfiero: This is why every time I change out a fuel pump I plug in the sending unit (with the new pump) before installing it in the tank....just to make sure the pump works before installing everything else. Hopefully it's something simple....good luck.

I'm sure it's not just the pump - there's too many other things not working either. If everything else was working fine but it wasn't getting fuel, then I'd be concerned...

Thanks for the luck! B)

[This message has been edited by LZeitgeist (edited 06-02-2014).]

I think it's the ignition switch circuits. He gets no dash lights or anything with the key. Backup lights don't come on (which should only come on with key in ON or START). Everything that doesn't require the key works, tail lights, dome light, headlights, etc. Since the column was replaced and it hasn't been started since, I'm betting it's the ignition switch - either out of adjustment, or a bad switch.

Does anyone have a pinout of the ignition switch for troubleshooting? Replacing the switch isn't too hard, but if that doesn't get it, we need to verify we're getting 12V where needed.

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: I'm sure it's not just the pump - there's too many other things not working either. If everything else was working fine but it wasn't getting fuel, then I'd be concerned... Thanks for the luck! B)

I just glanced through your post and missed the other stuff that didn't work too. It probably does have something to do with the steering column swap....at least you have a starting point. Worse case scenario is you re-install the old column and see what happens.

The old column's still in pieces.

Might try to swap in the old ignition switch, or if that doesn't work, swap the column from the Formula into the Coupe just to test it... would rather not have to swap back and forth but it's a possibility if needs be.

I think everyone here has posted plenty of useful information.

On the other hand, YOU LET A FIERO SIT FOR 6 YEARS?!?!?!?!?

Just giving you a hard time you should upload a few photo's of your fiero, I've actually never seen a 88' four cylinder before.

Best of luck to getting her fixed up!
------------------
The wetter the better

[This message has been edited by zzzhuh (edited 06-03-2014).]

When a car sits for years, dropping the tank, removing the old fuel, rinsing the tank and replacing the fuel pump is a very good idea. I would also recommend removing all of the spark plugs and shooting about an ounce of lightweight oil (like Marvel Mystery oil) in each cylinder before trying to start. The engine will smoke like hell for a minute or so but its good protection against possible surface rust on the cylinder walls.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I posted a couple of weeks ago about my 88 I had left sitting for 6 months. Got back in to start it..........nothing. Lights came on, horn 'buzzed', no fuel pump whirr, no click, nothing. First reply told me to check my ground. I did not. I thought it could not be that simple. Long story short, last night I decided to connect a wire from my battery directly to the engine. It started immediately. This happened after only 6 months. While it may not be your problem, I hope it is because it is an easy fix.

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: Pulled out each spark plug (one at a time) and poured maybe 1/4-teaspoon of oil into each cylinder to sit and hopefully loosen up the rings from the cylinder walls. Reinstalled spark plugs and boots.

I don't think 1/4 teaspoon in a duke is going to do any good at all. It has dished pistons, and the oil will just sit in the center of the dish. Better put at least a tablespoon in each cylinder, then crank it with no plugs in it to slosh the oil around in the cylinders.

quote Originally posted by TopNotch: I don't think 1/4 teaspoon in a duke is going to do any good at all. It has dished pistons, and the oil will just sit in the center of the dish. Better put at least a tablespoon in each cylinder, then crank it with no plugs in it to slosh the oil around in the cylinders.

Gotcha.

I didn't know how much liquid I might put in there before potentially causing hydro-locking problems, but yes, if I do it with the plugs out, it couldn't lock up. Good point.

Thank you!

SUCCESS!!

What a happy Father's Day it has been!

A card and a phone call from my daughter to start the day, another card and a beautiful shirt from the Mrs., and thanks to all of your advice and experiences, I GOT DAD'S CAR RUNNING TODAY!!

I took out the spark plugs and sprayed a decent amount of WD40 in the cylinders. Left the plugs out for now.

Disconnected and removed the steering column, comparing what I saw with the column and wiring in the Formula. Discovered that one of the plugs on the topside of the column got pushed loose somehow when I was bolting it in place. Connected both plugs, reinstalled the column and plugged in the rest of the harness plugs.

Installed the battery from the Formula, sat in it and turned the key... dash lights came on, heard the fuel pump whine and turned it over a couple times to loosen up the rings and get things moving...

Turned off the key, got out, reinstalled the spark plugs and boots, reinstalled the air cleaner housing, etc., and we're ready for the final test...

Got back in, turned the key, engaged the starter, turned it over a few times, and it caught... high idle for about 20 seconds, but then it started to level out to the familiar purr/rumble I know so well.

IT RUNS!

Thanks very much for your advice and help, gang. Now to price some tires and get a quote for a clutch replacement vs. the time, mess and efforts of doing it myself...

Also need to start making a list of the various bits and pieces that got harvested over the last 6 years to keep the Formula running... parking brake lever, passenger side headlight assembly, parking light bulbs, power window switches and panel...

It's a great feeling...

------------------
Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com

1988 Fiero Formula - Automoda convertible
repainted PPG Ferrari 'Giallo Modena' yellow

[This message has been edited by LZeitgeist (edited 06-15-2014).]

New update!

Got four new BFGoodrich Advantage T/A tires yesterday evening, so those will be mounted and balanced soon, and a new battery... two major steps closer to getting her back on the road.

Going to do the clutch soon... not something I'm looking forward to doing, but am looking forward to being successfully done with it! B)

------------------
Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com

1988 Fiero Formula - Automoda convertible
repainted PPG Ferrari 'Giallo Modena' yellow
1988 Fiero 4-cyl Coupe - Dad's car, the Indy 'clone'
(soon to be back on the road after a 6 year rest)

Since you're doing your clutch, you might as well do it right, and replace both the master and slave with new ones from Rodney Dickman. His master and slave work great, and will have you shifting smoothly.

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: New update! Got four new BFGoodrich Advantage T/A tires yesterday evening, so those will be mounted and balanced soon, and a new battery... two major steps closer to getting her back on the road. Going to do the clutch soon... not something I'm looking forward to doing, but am looking forward to being successfully done with it! B)

That's awesome! But you were looking for someone else to do the clutch. Just wondering. Did shops turn you down? Back in 2000 or so when I wanted to have mine done (I worked 7 days a week) a shop would not touch it. I ended up doing it myself. I supported the engine, dropped the cradle and transmission (cradle thing is another story...damn rear bolts!) clutch in and was good to go. Damn I wish this forum was as big as it is now. Back then we were kinda flying blind on this stuff. Never thought about taking pics at the time.

quote Originally posted by TopNotch: Since you're doing your clutch, you might as well do it right, and replace both the master and slave with new ones from Rodney Dickman. His master and slave work great, and will have you shifting smoothly.

If they're needed, I'll definitely go with those, but if they're not an absolute requirement right now, then they'll have to wait - I've already sunk $650 into the project as it is and still have a couple hundred more to go...