Okay. I am on the brink of insanity here. I have bled and bled and bled and bled and bled the brakes on my Fiero. I have spent probably close to $40 just on brake fluid. I have tried Gravity Bleeding, Vacuum Bleeding and Reverse Bleeding. I still have air in the lines or something. The pedal goes straight to the floor, I have to pump the pedal alot to get any pressure. When I pop the lid on the Master Cylinder, there are millions of little bubbles in the fluid. When I press the pedal I can see the fluid in the master cylinder reservoir bubble, like its boiling type of bubbling.
I have replaced the Master Cylinder and bench bled it twice. Once using the push the piston method and reverse bleeding. I found it had a leak on the seal for the reservoir. So I put the old one back on after I bench bled it. A while ago, I replaced the Driver Side Caliper and bled the system when I did that and it has never been the same since. I have check everywhere for leaks and nothing. This has been an absolute nightmare.
bad MC and/or rear brake. Getting bad new/rebuilt MC is common.
See brake section in my cave.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
bad MC and/or rear brake. Getting bad new/rebuilt MC is common.
See brake section in my cave.
What he said and I think I said the last time you asked about this, problem is you replaced them both at the same time so you are going to have to replace them one at a time this time to be sure, and waste another quart of brake fluid. Good luck, you really do need it.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Not sure if its possible but perhaps a perforated line. i think the factory lines are steel??? are you loosing fluid as well. or perhaps tiny holes that will pass air but not the more viscous oil? I'm just guessing here
Not sure if its possible but perhaps a perforated line. i think the factory lines are steel??? are you loosing fluid as well. or perhaps tiny holes that will pass air but not the more viscous oil? I'm just guessing here
I just had someone press on the pedal while I laid under the car and put my ear up to every brake line. The Rear brake hoses are dry rotted but they don't sound like they are leaking. I will replace them anyways.
Is there a way to test the Master Cylinder? I bled it with my Phoenix Systems Reverse Bleeder and I was able to inject the fluid into it until I saw no more bubbles, I was even able to do this with the old Master Cylinder too. If it was bad, wouldn't it be close to impossible to bleed the air out. I just find it hard to believe that a brand new Master Cylinder is bad. When I got the Fiero the driver side rear caliper was just seized up, the other 3 brakes worked fine. WTF.
I considered that maybe the Power Brake Booster is bad, but there wouldn't be any action in the Master Cylinder if it was bad, would there?
I used the speed bleeders for the first time a few weeks ago. I have a power bleed and a vacuum bleed. I honestly felt the bleeders are the way to go, worked well and easily. The booster shouldn't have anything to do with the bubbles you saw in the MC. It usually says you have air in the brake lines. If you are replacing the rubber hoses you will need to rebleed the system anyway. I really feel for you. I know how frustrating it is to see the fluid just being thrown away and still not have brakes. I have been there all too often. Using the speed bleeders was the first time I only had to do the bleeding once. I had to bleed the system (dread1) because I just put in a rebuild MC and replaced a bad 1 year old rebuilt rear caliper. This rebuilt stuff is kind of a pain. Best of luck!
After staring at my Fiero some more today. I noticed the new Driver Side Rear Caliper that I put on has the Bleeder Screw on the lower right hand side (it faces downward toward the ground). The rest of the calipers have the bleeder screw on the top. Something tells me its the wrong caliper and not even the wrong side caliper, the wrong caliper all together.
Originally posted by craigsfiero2007: I noticed the new Driver Side Rear Caliper that I put on has the Bleeder Screw on the lower right hand side (it faces downward toward the ground). Thoughts?
Is it possible to bleed all the air out if the bleeder screw is pointed down?
Is it possible to bleed all the air out if the bleeder screw is pointed down?
I am not sure. I thought all of the bleeder screws had to be faced upwards. The fact that mine is different means I could have the wrong caliper or some kind of mismatched homebrew caliper someone used as a core.
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Originally posted by BrittB:
Even an incorrect caliper should still hold pressure. Flexible brake lines are the most likely suspect.
True. But if this my caliper is wrong, it could require a larger amount of pressure to operate correctly. You are talking about the rear brake hoses, correct? My front brake hoses are Stainless Braided Hoses, for some odd reason the rear never got those even though they are sold as a set.
All of my caliper replacements have been bled using a helper to press the brake pedal while I loosen the bleeder screw to let the bubbles out. I just let the fluid drip down into a pan until no bubbles are coming out.
I don't see how that would work if the screw is pointing down. Wouldn't the fluid just run out & leave air in?
Originally posted by Strappado: Not sure if its possible but perhaps a perforated line. i think the factory lines are steel??? are you loosing fluid as well. or perhaps tiny holes that will pass air but not the more viscous oil? I'm just guessing here
Not possible. Hole in anything = leaking fluid.
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Originally posted by David Hambleton: Is it possible to bleed all the air out if the bleeder screw is pointed down?
No.
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Originally posted by BrittB: Even an incorrect caliper should still hold pressure. Flexible brake lines are the most likely suspect.
Air trapped in caliper is very compressible and will eat fluid from MC. Should cause brake light on but not always.
Originally posted by craigsfiero2007: I am not sure. I thought all of the bleeder screws had to be faced upwards. The fact that mine is different means I could have the wrong caliper or some kind of mismatched homebrew caliper someone used as a core.
Any one I have ever seen on any car has always been on the top, air rises to the top. bring it back and check it with another one they might have in stock, or order one from the fiero store. I have a set in the garage that need rebuilding but I think they are of a 84 but if you need a core they might work for you. PM me if you want that and I will mail it to you.
The bleeder has to be on the top. You have the wrong caliper or it's on the wrong side. It will hold air and it will be difficult to pump your bakes up to get pressure
Air trapped in caliper is very compressible and will eat fluid from MC. Should cause brake light on but not always.
So that brake caliper has air trapped in it. Would that make me have no brakes at all? The Brake Light is on unless I pump the crap out of that pedal. What do you mean by eating fluid from the MC? My brake fluid level does drop when I press the pedal but goes back up when I release the pedal.
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Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Any one I have ever seen on any car has always been on the top, air rises to the top. bring it back and check it with another one they might have in stock, or order one from the fiero store. I have a set in the garage that need rebuilding but I think they are of a 84 but if you need a core they might work for you. PM me if you want that and I will mail it to you.
Steve
Thanks Steve, I appreciate it. I have an 88 though. Unfortunately, that caliper I have on the car, I ordered it from Amazon. So I will just have to get a rebuild kit and rebuild the old caliper that I took off the Fiero.
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Originally posted by notwohorns:
The bleeder has to be on the top. You have the wrong caliper or it's on the wrong side. It will hold air and it will be difficult to pump your bakes up to get pressure
I believe I have the wrong caliper all together. In order to get the brakes to somewhat work, I have to pump the crap out of them.
So from what I gather, the fact that I have the wrong caliper (thanks Amazon) means that chances are my Master Cylinder isn't my problem.
[This message has been edited by craigsfiero2007 (edited 03-23-2014).]
Nobody can say you don't have 2 problems. You can only find that out after you fix the first one.
I know. But I doubt that the Master Cylinder is my problem, the new master cylinder does have a leak at the reservoir seal though. So I put the old one back on and it doesn't appear to have any leaks and seems to function properly. The 3 other brakes worked before I swapped out the driver side caliper because it was seized.
Wrong side, with the bleeder down you will never get the air out. Therefore you will never have brakes unless you pump the crap out of the pedal to compress the air enough to push out the pads. The bubbles in your master could also be some of that air working it's way back. You could try bleeding the air out at the banjo fitting, but the best solution is to get the right caliper.
[This message has been edited by tebailey (edited 03-23-2014).]
Wrong side, with the bleeder down you will never get the air out. Therefore you will never have brakes unless you pump the crap out of the pedal to compress the air enough to push out the pads. The bubbles in your master could also be some of that air working it's way back. You could try bleeding the air out at the banjo fitting, but the best solution is to get the right caliper.
Ayup, didn't you realize that when you put in on and the bleeder screw was in a different position than the original? Start there, not sure if you ordered the wrong one or they gave you the wrong one. How you got it to fit is beyond me but that is the wrong caliper or at least for the wrong side of the car.
Ayup, didn't you realize that when you put in on and the bleeder screw was in a different position than the original? Start there, not sure if you ordered the wrong one or they gave you the wrong one. How you got it to fit is beyond me but that is the wrong caliper or at least for the wrong side of the car.
Steve
I ordered the right caliper but Amazon sent me the wrong one. Even the part number on the box is right. It bolted right on. I can't return it now, so it will go into my parts closet once I get a new one. I got anxious to get my Fiero going and it was cold outside when I was putting it on. Oh well, another life lesson.
Originally posted by craigsfiero2007: A while ago, I replaced the Driver Side Caliper and bled the system when I did that and it has never been the same since.
How did you bleed the system with the caliper bleeder pointed downwards?
I ordered the right caliper but Amazon sent me the wrong one. Even the part number on the box is right. It bolted right on. I can't return it now, so it will go into my parts closet once I get a new one. I got anxious to get my Fiero going and it was cold outside when I was putting it on. Oh well, another life lesson.
I have never had a problem returning anything to Amazon. I oder from them almost daily and have returned many many things in open and used condition. You can usually have them send you a replacement free of charge and ship the old one back in the received box. I would definitely give that a shot.
I have never had a problem returning anything to Amazon. I oder from them almost daily and have returned many many things in open and used condition. You can usually have them send you a replacement free of charge and ship the old one back in the received box. I would definitely give that a shot.
the caliper should have numbers on it somewhere, check those online with the manufacturers and then show that to amazon, no matter how long its been, explain the them that you never got to put it on until now because of the weather. I bet they would take it back, what have you got to lose.
Worse case.... take the caliper off, get a block of wood/steel that is wider than rotor. Put this between the pads, and hang the caliper so the bleeder is at top. Now bleed the caliper. Once all the air is out, put caliper back on.
Worse case.... take the caliper off, get a block of wood/steel that is wider than rotor. Put this between the pads, and hang the caliper so the bleeder is at top. Now bleed the caliper. Once all the air is out, put caliper back on.
When I was in the shop yesterday I looked at the set I have that needs to be rebuilt, I label everything I take off any of my vehicles with a paint pen. these are off a 86 SE and if you want them they are yours, something to think about if you want to learn how to rebuild them, you used to be able to buy rebuild kits years ago for calipers, not sure if you still can. but it basically came with a bunch of seals, sand the bore if it is lightly rusted or use a honing stone and drill.
just a heads up.
edit to add I am not sure about the ratcheting mechanism of them.
When I was in the shop yesterday I looked at the set I have that needs to be rebuilt, I label everything I take off any of my vehicles with a paint pen. these are off a 86 SE and if you want them they are yours, something to think about if you want to learn how to rebuild them, you used to be able to buy rebuild kits years ago for calipers, not sure if you still can. but it basically came with a bunch of seals, sand the bore if it is lightly rusted or use a honing stone and drill.
just a heads up.
edit to add I am not sure about the ratcheting mechanism of them.
Well. I got my caliper in the mail today and behold the hole for the brake hose on the caliper is completely stripped out. Awesome. But I did get one of the new brake hoses installed.
Well. I got my caliper in the mail today and behold the hole for the brake hose on the caliper is completely stripped out. Awesome. But I did get one of the new brake hoses installed.
I feel for you brother.. went through a water pump issue now Im working on the brake lines.. I have two leaks I just cant fix.. I guess making a double flare is a rare art form and only taught in the dark parts of a garage.. I wish all I had to do was swap parts..
We'll be down that way in late spring. Beach time!
------------------ Tim and Lynn 1987 Fastback GT in restore mode..
My Fiero is close to being on the road now. The brakes work, they just need some more bleeding to make them 100% safe. Thanks for the help/advice everyone. +'s or bumps (if I have already given you a + in the past, it will bump) for everyone.
