Sure this could pose some problems, looks to be rather old heat damage. And a big wonder it even runs and gets 30MPG Maybe the source of a lot of problems. This is the engine harness correct?
WTH was Pontiac thinking putting a plastic harness connection block above the header?
I need to source this and make a new heat shield. I can change this out when I replace the transmission.
Feel confident the distributor is going bad, the sluggish throttle response is back. Also aligns with the wobbling timing marks, now that I have a comparison. The car's throttle response was better when we had it close to 8* mark, will recheck again to see if it's drifted. If it's advanced again, would that explain louder than normal lifter noise? Seems it would.
I checked the oil level yesterday, dead on as I filled it two weeks ago and it still had the dark honey color. So no signs of the engine burning oil via level or smoke out the exhaust.
Made another video of the temp gauge, just overthinking and concerned of blown head gasket. But there are no noticeable signs that has occurred, neither in the oil or exhaust. And it's never read above 220*, so I am thinking the distributor is causing the issue since it was resolved after we set it for a period of time. Temp gauge reading
[This message has been edited by mckaymotoworks (edited 04-09-2014).]
Think I am making some progress in diagnosing the issue. Went to a friend's this evening to work on my moto, temp was upper 60's today, car sat for a few hours, about 47 when I left, was running normal for about 20 minutes, then sluggish throttle comes back. So once it's warm, it's getting rich, same as in the mornings now that I can confirm it with varying conditions.
So it runs normal when cold, after warm up, it's getting rich.
After reading this thread running rich and from my recent experience with the symptoms (low temp reading, running rich, smell of gas at times) I ordered temp coolant sensor (Echlin), temp gauge sending sensor (Echlin) and an O2 (Denso)
Seems as good of a place to start as any. Would explain why it runs well until it warms up, still suspect the distributor also since the timing marks wobbles wildly between 4-10*, occasionally resting on 8*. I'll replace one sensor and test at a time, as well as check the voltage out of the box per fierofool's chart.
Today I noticed the lifters are chattering even more, like I said before, as if you're driving a manual with it in a higher gear that doesn't match your speed. This would correlate with a rich/loaded condition, really noticeable on hills or inclines. It's just loaded up.
Also ordered a TBI tune up kit (Echlin), I'll replace that when it arrives and I've had time to work with the sensors to determine or rule out other causes. Regardless, it needs it after 30 years.
I'm not one to just throw parts to solve a problem, but with me restoring the whole car, it sitting for so long and most of the components being 30 years old, they all need replacing. The trick is to determine the ones that are immediately necessary to get it running correctly as to not tie up funds for parts that are more important to the overall health/reliability of the car
[This message has been edited by mckaymotoworks (edited 04-10-2014).]
You may want to look at getting an ALDAL connector and reading what the computer is doing. I would have to look who is still making the harness (ALDL to laptop).... That would tell you what your sensors are doing.
Haven't checked mileage in a few days. The lifters are only noticeable when whatever this condition is happens. When it is running "right" or when cold, they barely make noise. But once this "condition" starts, they chatter away. Like I said, best I can describe is the manual in too high of a gear to match a low speed scenario.
But it's a means to an end, better than reading, posting and guessing am I right? :-)
Haven't checked mileage in a few days. The lifters are only noticeable when whatever this condition is happens. When it is running "right" or when cold, they barely make noise. But once this "condition" starts, they chatter away. Like I said, best I can describe is the manual in too high of a gear to match a low speed scenario.
But it's a means to an end, better than reading, posting and guessing am I right? :-)
The lifters are hydraulic, they shouldn't chatter "on and off". This is why I am leaning towards typical 4 cyl knocking. I mentioned my '87 would do this, going up a long hill, on the expressway. Annoying, but the little engine was overworked
The lifters are hydraulic, they shouldn't chatter "on and off". This is why I am leaning towards typical 4 cyl knocking. I mentioned my '87 would do this, going up a long hill, on the expressway. Annoying, but the little engine was overworked
Not even if the engine is getting loaded up with fuel? Sometimes it's hard to describe things, but I've tuned enough motorcycles to know what a rich condition feels and sounds like, and there very well may be a wealth of other underlying issues.
Like I said, pick the most probable and keep working towards a complete restoration. That ALDL is definitely next on the list as it would answer many questions. Good bang for the buck necessity.
Replaced the coolant, temp sensor, temp sending sensor and fuel filter. The fuel filter seems to have cleared it up some, tomorrow's 50 mile commute will be the real test. Gauge still sits at 160*, not the 220* I understand it supposed to be at. It will climb if it sits long enough, also notice the fan isn't coming on, cleaned the connection, fan switch? Is it possible the gauge is off? Why does it run so cool?
Also noticed a stumble similar to what I understand the MAP would cause, disconnected it, ran around the block did seem a tad better. Only code is 34 in reference to the MAP, I assume when I disconnected it.
Sounds like it has a miss. I have new plugs gapped at 60, wires, rotor and cap. I suspect the distributor bushing is worn, and timing is jumping around as witnessed by the wobbling timing mark when we set it last week.
[This message has been edited by mckaymotoworks (edited 04-13-2014).]
After reading the GM Tuners article again on the TPS and the symptoms I've experienced, with them returning today, which it seems to do on my long commute intermittently, I feel confident that the TPS is failing.
No codes are displaying, but the idle is erratic, flat throttle response etc. Also suspect the alternator as at idle with the lights on, it drops to 700, voltage drops to 12vdc, but picks back up once the car gains speed.
If you do, measure it under load as well as idle. You can masking tape the gauge to the back window.
I haven't, local stores didn't have one, wanted $100 refundable to rent if they could locate at other stores. Rather just buy one But that is on the list. Did find a NOS TPS for $20, be here Sat. Normally I wouldn't just replace, but it's all 30 years old and needs it anyway. Too good of a deal to pass up.
But that is suspect especially since no codes are being thrown and it seems to be intermittent. Oddly, MPG was 27 yesterday and it feels the most sluggish at times yet.
[This message has been edited by mckaymotoworks (edited 04-17-2014).]
New TPS seems to have cleared it up quite a bit. Runs peppy between 60-70, where I spend most of my commute, whereas before it was a pig. Also installed new Denso O2, tried it last night before today's install, couldn't really tell but felt a stumble off line. Not there today
Still feels weak down low off the line, new MAP next. Of course it's all suspect, and that wobbly timing mark, so a distributor is in order. All of it needs replacing anyway, plus I am restoring it so I want it all new also.
New TPS seems to have cleared it up quite a bit. Runs peppy between 60-70, where I spend most of my commute, whereas before it was a pig. Also installed new Denso O2, tried it last night before today's install, couldn't really tell but felt a stumble off line. Not there today
Still feels weak down low off the line, new MAP next. Of course it's all suspect, and that wobbly timing mark, so a distributor is in order. All of it needs replacing anyway, plus I am restoring it so I want it all new also.
Originally posted by KurtAKX: So far, you've got: EGR plugs wires PCV temp sender O2 sensor TPS Fuel filter
and now you want to buy a MAP sensor?
Isn't it time to spend $0 on performing a few simple tests (like fuel pressure, for example) before dropping more money on the guess'n'check method?
I understand where you're coming from, and would normally do such. But I just rebuilt my motorcycle, it has priority, this weather is too gorgeous to miss out on. Secondly, this car sat for 17 years and most everything appears 30 years old on it. I am doing a complete tear down, it all needs replacing at some point. I am replacing the more obvious that are causing current symptoms while I commute.
So in short, I don't like, nor want 30 old replaceable parts on my car when I am trying to make it "new" in the end. Learned my lesson on past projects reusing old parts, especially electrical or electromechanical, always the first to creep up causing issues. But I usually follow the testing/eliminate method.
By the way, I'll test fuel PSI this weekend. New Bosch pump is in the future, certain PO put cheapo Autozone in, and the sender needs repair, POR 15 the tank. Might as well handle it all at once and be done.
I saved the old TPS, I need to test it. The replacement cleared up a lot, but odd no codes were thrown with it being defective.
[This message has been edited by mckaymotoworks (edited 04-22-2014).]
Had my first ever 'Check Engine" light this morning right after cranking, finally found time to run downstairs at the office to read it. Code 45, just replaced the O2 with a Denso unit and NOS AC branded TPS. Looking through causes, there's quite a few.
With it happening right after cranking, which is more plausible?
I'll call around on the ride home to see if one of the local parts stores have a fuel pressure test kit I can rent, plan to buy one or fittings this weekend.
Though it is running much better, the fuel pressure is suspect as the performance/acceleration seems to be up/down, low power on hills. One minute it's performing fine, then the next on acceleration it seems "off" which intermittent fuel pressure issues would align with.
So MPG has remained at 28. Odd the throttle performance still feels off, and I do feel "chuggling" slightly. Today I drove it about 50 miles, off line feels much better with the new MAP sensor, but when I made a right turn, there was immediately a steep hill, I gave it all the throttle, it just barely moved. Also seems the kick down should have engaged to drop it to the next lowest gear. It's just flat throttle response.
I replaced the plug wires with some premium Belden silicone coated wires, new dist cap since I had one. Originally had planned to check compression, but the previous boot connectors separated out of the jacket, then I was busy the rest of the day locating new plug wires so I can make it to work Monday.
I can hear a miss when I stand behind the exhaust, plugs are gapped at 60. Cleaned the BATT connector to the coil, was pretty nasty from the old electrical grease. Coil looks original I do not have the equipment to check the injector, but I will replace since I have a new TBI kit to install. Could a leaking injector cause these intermittent symptoms?
Anyone have suggestion where else to look and test? This mornings ride, I notice if you floor it, as before, it's just flat, but if you ease in to it, it accelerates without surging, bucking sputtering etc. Car seems to run well other than the miss, still gets good mileage, the throttle response is just flat. It comes off the line fine, but if your at say 35-45 and give it throttle, flat, but between 50-60 it kicks down, picks up speed nicely for a 90hp with a slush box. The flatness seems to correlate with different point in the car's speed and RPM's.
It's raining like crazy, heard the belt squeal even with light throttle, only usually does this at start up, so I guess it is loose, with the rain dripping down from the vent it's slipping more than usual. I can watch the voltmeter drop. Possible the voltage is fluctuating causing the coil fire to be strong then weak? I don't see the voltmeter drop when the car is at speed, only when at idle and in gear. Picks up at idle if you put it in neutral.
So I have good fuel pressure, most all sensor have been replaced, last time I checked, the injector had a nice fan pattern, no codes are being thrown. Which leaves exhaust could be plugged, the timing mark wobbles and could be distributor, rebuild the TBI with my kit w/new injector.
I can't really think of anything else unless there's some random electrical gremlin that in intermittent.
