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Eliminating exhaust spring bolts? by Bridgetown
Started on: 03-15-2014 11:09 PM
Replies: 15 (754 views)
Last post by: 84fiero123 on 03-19-2014 08:11 AM
Bridgetown
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Report this Post03-15-2014 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BridgetownSend a Private Message to BridgetownEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am in the process of working out the bugs on my customized exhaust. I am wanting to get other opinions/experiences on eliminating the stock style exhaust spring bolts, and replacing them with solid bolts. For reference here is a pic of the bolts.


I am using this same style of joint on my exhaust, but the spring bolts allow a bit too much give in the joint. After a couple of bumps the joint starts to leak because the exhaust slides off to the side slightly, opening up a gap between the flared pipe and the cone gasket.
I'm thinking solid bolts without springs might give me enough purchase to keep the flared pipe centred on the cone gasket. The exhaust is mounted with spring hangers and rubber hangers so there is play to allow for engine movement.
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Report this Post03-15-2014 11:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It is intended to allow movement, if your alignment is not right you may fudge it a little and try going with one solid and one spring bolt. Larry
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post03-16-2014 01:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree, doing away with the spring will eventually cause something to Break.
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theogre
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Report this Post03-16-2014 09:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
I agree, doing away with the spring will eventually cause something to Break.

Yup.

Picture above shows down pipe, Y pipe or both have problems.

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sco77
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Report this Post03-16-2014 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sco77Click Here to Email sco77Send a Private Message to sco77Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't think there would be any problems with getting rid of the spring bolt, many modern cars have all flange connections. But I wouldn't do it without adding a piece of flex to the system.
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Report this Post03-16-2014 11:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are you tightening the bolts completely? The shoulders on the bolts can get caught on the exhaust flange, preventing them from tightening completely. TheĀ "fat" part of the bolt should go through both exhaust flanges.

If you have that squared away, and the connection is still loose, try adding washers under the bolt heads. That will increase the spring tension. You can also double up the spring over by the passenger side wheel, to reduce movement.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post03-16-2014 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They are there for a reason, manufacturers don't spend anymore money than they have to down to the last nut and bolt and in this case spring. the bean counters rule. but if it came with spring bolts there is a reason, get new ones and use them.

Steve

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[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 03-16-2014).]

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post03-16-2014 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks to me like your "down pipe" is not made at the Correct ANGLE to begin with.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post03-16-2014 12:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

Looks to me like your "down pipe" is not made at the Correct ANGLE to begin with.


Things move when you drive a car, that's why that section of pipe is bulb shaped to allow for some movement, that is one of the reasons for the springs to allow for that movement.

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 03-16-2014).]

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Bridgetown
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Report this Post03-16-2014 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BridgetownSend a Private Message to BridgetownEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That pic is not actually my exhaust. It is for reference only.
Upon further investigation, I noticed that the female cone on my exhaust is not as "flared" as the stock unit. In other words the flared collar is not as tall as the stock one. I think a stock flare would not have a gap as mine does. I decided to try a simple solution. I cut the flare off the stock pipe, and stacked it on top of mine. So it is now a double flare. I used some high heat liquid gasket in between the two flared cones. I bolted it up and appears the double flare is covering the gap now.
I'm just waiting for the gasket to dry so I can fire it up and test for leaks.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post03-16-2014 08:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bridgetown:

That pic is not actually my exhaust. It is for reference only.
Upon further investigation, I noticed that the female cone on my exhaust is not as "flared" as the stock unit. In other words the flared collar is not as tall as the stock one. I think a stock flare would not have a gap as mine does. I decided to try a simple solution. I cut the flare off the stock pipe, and stacked it on top of mine. So it is now a double flare. I used some high heat liquid gasket in between the two flared cones. I bolted it up and appears the double flare is covering the gap now.
I'm just waiting for the gasket to dry so I can fire it up and test for leaks.


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Report this Post03-16-2014 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BridgetownSend a Private Message to BridgetownEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I gather by your response you are not understanding what I'm trying to convey...
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lateFormula
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Report this Post03-17-2014 05:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bridgetown:

I gather by your response you are not understanding what I'm trying to convey...


Oh no, we understand...

That it is a Mickey Mouse fix that will fail, likely much sooner than later.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post03-17-2014 08:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bridgetown:

I gather by your response you are not understanding what I'm trying to convey...


If you want to expand the flair on the pipe just take it to a custom muffler shop they can expand it to any size you want for just a few dollars and that will hold up better than what you are thinking of. just adding something from another pipe is going to require welding or something and it will fail.

Steve
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Report this Post03-18-2014 10:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BridgetownSend a Private Message to BridgetownEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


If you want to expand the flair on the pipe just take it to a custom muffler shop they can expand it to any size you want for just a few dollars and that will hold up better than what you are thinking of. just adding something from another pipe is going to require welding or something and it will fail.

Steve


Now see, that is a helpful contribution. As opposed to this

I see what you guys are saying. The problem is not that the mouth of the flare is not wide enough, it is that it is not tall enough. If that makes any sense.
Taking the car to a shop in my area has not yielded very good results in the past, so I try to avoid that.
I will try this as a temporary fix, until I can get the car on a hoist, drop the exhaust and weld on a taller flare. The main reason for my reluctance to start chopping up the exhaust and welding it, is the fact that it is stainless, and should be TIG welded so the welds don't rust. I don't have access to a TIG at the moment, but I will soon, for now I just have my little 120v flux core wire welder.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post03-19-2014 08:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bridgetown:


Now see, that is a helpful contribution. As opposed to this

I see what you guys are saying. The problem is not that the mouth of the flare is not wide enough, it is that it is not tall enough. If that makes any sense.
Taking the car to a shop in my area has not yielded very good results in the past, so I try to avoid that.
I will try this as a temporary fix, until I can get the car on a hoist, drop the exhaust and weld on a taller flare. The main reason for my reluctance to start chopping up the exhaust and welding it, is the fact that it is stainless, and should be TIG welded so the welds don't rust. I don't have access to a TIG at the moment, but I will soon, for now I just have my little 120v flux core wire welder.


Ayup it should be tig welded, but even at the factory it is not, its mig welded with regular 7018 wire, I know it was one of my jobs as utility repair at my factory in MA.

but unless you are a dam good welder I wouldn't try that. take the 2 peace's off the car, bring them to a custom exhaust shop and have them do what you want, they can do it, they have the equipment, you can also buy a pipe expander tool, but being stainless you are going to need one hell of a good impact gun to use that with. they have one at the shop that can do that in less the an few min, most of that time will be setting up the right expanding tool on the hydraulic machine.


Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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