I have a series2 SC engine and trans from a '96 Park Ave ultra. I'm confident that the engine/trans are original and low mileage (29K) to this car. I was led to believe thru my research that all the SC cars all carried the HD trans. Well... I ordered the engine/trans brackets and mounts from WCF and sent them pics of my trans mount points on the dipstick side. They came back and said it is a non-HD trans. I'm completely confused at this point. The tag was missing from the trans and I don't have any info from the donor car. Here is the pic that I sent to WCF. Can someone please straighten me out on this! The pass side output looks much larger than the driver side but I don't have the axles from the donor car either.
They probably ran the numbers on the side of the case which pulls up only the 4t60e but I don't know enough about this to say the HD has a different number on the case or not. But them saying it is not based off only the mounting point I would say they are right you have a non HD trans type in GM 2404626 in google.
They probably ran the numbers on the side of the case which pulls up only the 4t60e but I don't know enough about this to say the HD has a different number on the case or not. But them saying it is not based off only the mounting point I would say they are right you have a non HD trans type in GM 2404626 in google.
No they didn't run the numbers, I tried that to no avail. He said the HD has 3 mount bolts while the non-hd has 4. Still confused.
I have both, (I rebuilt both). when you buy a rebuild kit, it's the same kit (including seals for both the large and small axle) The only difference between the 2 is the Carrier. where the larger output axle is located . the case and mounts are the same.
I have both, (I rebuilt both). when you buy a rebuild kit, it's the same kit (including seals for both the large and small axle) The only difference between the 2 is the Carrier. where the larger output axle is located . the case and mounts are the same.
Thanks Lou, finally getting somewhere... So on the non-HD are both driver side and pass side axles the same diameter? Do you have the pass measurement so I can compare. Might be the only way to know for sure.
NON HD they are the same , you can pop you old fiero axles in to "check". the HD has a bigger "drive" axle and the bolt on housing has a bigger Seal area.
NON HD they are the same , you can pop you old fiero axles in to "check". the HD has a bigger "drive" axle and the bolt on housing has a bigger Seal area.
OK the pass side is def much larger diameter then drivers. I'm not at the point where my fiero axles are out of the car yet, but I can tell by looking and measuring. I think then that WCF gave me some wrong info, or just didn't know the details.
[This message has been edited by TbirdMarc (edited 03-04-2014).]
The 4T60-E HD was only made and used in one model year - 1996 and only with the 3800 Series 2 SC engines. Any car in 1996 that got a 3800 Series 2 SC engine and 4T60-E trans got the HD version of that trans.
-ryan
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I'd like ask if anyone else can confirm that the 4t60e-HD and 4t60e and early 4t65e variants can be mounted with the same mounts, whether from WCF or using the BrandX mounts and such. I bought a wrecked 96 park ave ultra as well, and looking into a mounting solution for the engine/trans. I haven't found a totally definitive answer anywhere!
The 4T60-E HD was only made and used in one model year - 1996 and only with the 3800 Series 2 SC engines. Any car in 1996 that got a 3800 Series 2 SC engine and 4T60-E trans got the HD version of that trans.
-ryan
thought all years of the 3800SC got the HD version of the tranny?
it also begs the question, how come they didn't use the 4t60e-HD on the cadillac 4.9L ? it certainly had enough torque to warrant using the HD
thought all years of the 3800SC got the HD version of the tranny?
it also begs the question, how come they didn't use the 4t60e-HD on the cadillac 4.9L ? it certainly had enough torque to warrant using the HD
No. 3800 Series 1 SC applications never got the HD version of the 4T60-E.
Cadillac 4.9's never got an HD version of the 4T60-E either. Apparently GM felt the stock power rating of the 4.9 (200hp / 275tq) could be handled by the standard version of the 4T60-E without spending money redesigning that transmission before 1996 model year when they were going to drop the 4.9 anyway.
Having said all that, we have to assume the 4T65-E was in development during the early 90's and an HD version of the 4T65-E must have been in the works as well. The only thing I can think of is they were planning on releasing the 4T65-E (and HD version) for the 1996 model year (just in time for OBD2 to hit) but it wasn't ready yet. However, the mechanicals of the 4T60-E and 4T65-E were so similar they must have decided to just put the HD parts they had ready for the 65's in the 4T60-E's that were going to be used with the new 1996 3800 Series 2 SC engines for whatever reason. I think the standard version of the 4T60-E would have held up fine, but GM decided different.
The only question you have is axles, not mounts... Just build your own axles.
I have another member building axles for me, that's the reason for this post. I was concerned by the misinfo I got from WCF if I did in fact have an HD.
I think the standard version of the 4T60-E would have held up fine, but GM decided different.
In a fiero and a sane person driving a FWD, the standard diff is fine...The HD diff was designed so people doing 1 wheel burnouts and getaway driving did not blow them up in a FWD where you will abuse spidergears easily.
The pass side 4T65E HD axle is the same as the 4T60E HD but the 60E driver's side has a different inner then the 65E tranny. For this I find the driver's axle from a 92 to 96 Trans Sport van that had the 4T60E is best to use along with a Fiero manual axle outer. Dan
The HD diff was designed so people doing 1 wheel burnouts and getaway driving did not blow them up in a FWD where you will abuse spidergears easily.
The HD diff still isn't indestructible if people do 1 legger burnouts. But I agree, the standard duty diffs hold up fine in most cases if they are not "abused".
The pass side 4T65E HD axle is the same as the 4T60E HD but the 60E driver's side has a different inner then the 65E tranny. For this I find the driver's axle from a 92 to 96 Trans Sport van that had the 4T60E is best to use along with a Fiero manual axle outer. Dan
Wow, Thanks for that info Dan I would have not know until it didn't fit! So the Trans sport axle and inner mated to the Fiero manual outer is what I need?
