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4T60E or 4T60E-HD Confusion by TbirdMarc
Started on: 03-04-2014 02:13 PM
Replies: 19 (1409 views)
Last post by: TbirdMarc on 03-10-2014 11:29 AM
TbirdMarc
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Report this Post03-04-2014 02:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TbirdMarcClick Here to visit TbirdMarc's HomePageClick Here to Email TbirdMarcSend a Private Message to TbirdMarcEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a series2 SC engine and trans from a '96 Park Ave ultra. I'm confident that the engine/trans are original and low mileage (29K) to this car. I was led to believe thru my research that all the SC cars all carried the HD trans. Well... I ordered the engine/trans brackets and mounts from WCF and sent them pics of my trans mount points on the dipstick side. They came back and said it is a non-HD trans. I'm completely confused at this point. The tag was missing from the trans and I don't have any info from the donor car. Here is the pic that I sent to WCF. Can someone please straighten me out on this! The pass side output looks much larger than the driver side but I don't have the axles from the donor car either.

http://s29.postimg.org/cwfht9vlj/trans.jpg

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Fadingaway
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Report this Post03-04-2014 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FadingawayClick Here to Email FadingawaySend a Private Message to FadingawayEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They probably ran the numbers on the side of the case which pulls up only the 4t60e but I don't know enough about this to say the HD has a different number on the case or not. But them saying it is not based off only the mounting point I would say they are right you have a non HD trans type in GM 2404626 in google.
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TbirdMarc
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Report this Post03-04-2014 02:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TbirdMarcClick Here to visit TbirdMarc's HomePageClick Here to Email TbirdMarcSend a Private Message to TbirdMarcEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fadingaway:

They probably ran the numbers on the side of the case which pulls up only the 4t60e but I don't know enough about this to say the HD has a different number on the case or not. But them saying it is not based off only the mounting point I would say they are right you have a non HD trans type in GM 2404626 in google.


No they didn't run the numbers, I tried that to no avail. He said the HD has 3 mount bolts while the non-hd has 4. Still confused.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post03-04-2014 03:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have both, (I rebuilt both). when you buy a rebuild kit, it's the same kit (including seals for both the large and small axle) The only difference between the 2 is the Carrier. where the larger output axle is located . the case and mounts are the same.
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TbirdMarc
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Report this Post03-04-2014 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TbirdMarcClick Here to visit TbirdMarc's HomePageClick Here to Email TbirdMarcSend a Private Message to TbirdMarcEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

I have both, (I rebuilt both). when you buy a rebuild kit, it's the same kit (including seals for both the large and small axle) The only difference between the 2 is the Carrier. where the larger output axle is located . the case and mounts are the same.


Thanks Lou, finally getting somewhere... So on the non-HD are both driver side and pass side axles the same diameter? Do you have the pass measurement so I can compare. Might be the only way to know for sure.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post03-04-2014 03:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
NON HD they are the same , you can pop you old fiero axles in to "check". the HD has a bigger "drive" axle and the bolt on housing has a bigger Seal area.
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TbirdMarc
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Report this Post03-04-2014 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TbirdMarcClick Here to visit TbirdMarc's HomePageClick Here to Email TbirdMarcSend a Private Message to TbirdMarcEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

NON HD they are the same , you can pop you old fiero axles in to "check". the HD has a bigger "drive" axle and the bolt on housing has a bigger Seal area.


OK the pass side is def much larger diameter then drivers. I'm not at the point where my fiero axles are out of the car yet, but I can tell by looking and measuring. I think then that WCF gave me some wrong info, or just didn't know the details.

[This message has been edited by TbirdMarc (edited 03-04-2014).]

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post03-04-2014 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
I ordered the engine/trans brackets and mounts from WCF


Well theres your problem.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post03-04-2014 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 4T60-E HD was only made and used in one model year - 1996 and only with the 3800 Series 2 SC engines. Any car in 1996 that got a 3800 Series 2 SC engine and 4T60-E trans got the HD version of that trans.

-ryan

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OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

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Leukay
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Report this Post03-04-2014 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LeukayClick Here to Email LeukaySend a Private Message to LeukayEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'd like ask if anyone else can confirm that the 4t60e-HD and 4t60e and early 4t65e variants can be mounted with the same mounts, whether from WCF or using the BrandX mounts and such. I bought a wrecked 96 park ave ultra as well, and looking into a mounting solution for the engine/trans. I haven't found a totally definitive answer anywhere!
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TbirdMarc
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Report this Post03-04-2014 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TbirdMarcClick Here to visit TbirdMarc's HomePageClick Here to Email TbirdMarcSend a Private Message to TbirdMarcEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


Well theres your problem.


Wasn't my first choice. My BrandX order was refunded due to mfg problems.
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Report this Post03-05-2014 05:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The only question you have is axles, not mounts... Just build your own axles.
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Report this Post03-05-2014 10:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stickponyClick Here to visit stickpony's HomePageSend a Private Message to stickponyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:

The 4T60-E HD was only made and used in one model year - 1996 and only with the 3800 Series 2 SC engines. Any car in 1996 that got a 3800 Series 2 SC engine and 4T60-E trans got the HD version of that trans.

-ryan



thought all years of the 3800SC got the HD version of the tranny?

it also begs the question, how come they didn't use the 4t60e-HD on the cadillac 4.9L ? it certainly had enough torque to warrant using the HD
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post03-06-2014 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by stickpony:


thought all years of the 3800SC got the HD version of the tranny?

it also begs the question, how come they didn't use the 4t60e-HD on the cadillac 4.9L ? it certainly had enough torque to warrant using the HD


No. 3800 Series 1 SC applications never got the HD version of the 4T60-E.

Cadillac 4.9's never got an HD version of the 4T60-E either. Apparently GM felt the stock power rating of the 4.9 (200hp / 275tq) could be handled by the standard version of the 4T60-E without spending money redesigning that transmission before 1996 model year when they were going to drop the 4.9 anyway.

Having said all that, we have to assume the 4T65-E was in development during the early 90's and an HD version of the 4T65-E must have been in the works as well. The only thing I can think of is they were planning on releasing the 4T65-E (and HD version) for the 1996 model year (just in time for OBD2 to hit) but it wasn't ready yet. However, the mechanicals of the 4T60-E and 4T65-E were so similar they must have decided to just put the HD parts they had ready for the 65's in the 4T60-E's that were going to be used with the new 1996 3800 Series 2 SC engines for whatever reason. I think the standard version of the 4T60-E would have held up fine, but GM decided different.
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TbirdMarc
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Report this Post03-07-2014 01:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TbirdMarcClick Here to visit TbirdMarc's HomePageClick Here to Email TbirdMarcSend a Private Message to TbirdMarcEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by darkhorizon:

The only question you have is axles, not mounts... Just build your own axles.


I have another member building axles for me, that's the reason for this post. I was concerned by the misinfo I got from WCF if I did in fact have an HD.
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post03-07-2014 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I believe 4T65-E HD axles will fit the 4T60-E HD.
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Report this Post03-09-2014 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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I think the standard version of the 4T60-E would have held up fine, but GM decided different.


In a fiero and a sane person driving a FWD, the standard diff is fine...The HD diff was designed so people doing 1 wheel burnouts and getaway driving did not blow them up in a FWD where you will abuse spidergears easily.
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Report this Post03-09-2014 11:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The pass side 4T65E HD axle is the same as the 4T60E HD but the 60E driver's side has a different inner then the 65E tranny. For this I find the driver's axle from a 92 to 96 Trans Sport van that had the 4T60E is best to use along with a Fiero manual axle outer. Dan
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post03-09-2014 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


The HD diff was designed so people doing 1 wheel burnouts and getaway driving did not blow them up in a FWD where you will abuse spidergears easily.


The HD diff still isn't indestructible if people do 1 legger burnouts. But I agree, the standard duty diffs hold up fine in most cases if they are not "abused".
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TbirdMarc
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Report this Post03-10-2014 11:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TbirdMarcClick Here to visit TbirdMarc's HomePageClick Here to Email TbirdMarcSend a Private Message to TbirdMarcEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

The pass side 4T65E HD axle is the same as the 4T60E HD but the 60E driver's side has a different inner then the 65E tranny. For this I find the driver's axle from a 92 to 96 Trans Sport van that had the 4T60E is best to use along with a Fiero manual axle outer. Dan


Wow, Thanks for that info Dan I would have not know until it didn't fit! So the Trans sport axle and inner mated to the Fiero manual outer is what I need?
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