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Fiero prototype wheels by TbirdMarc
Started on: 02-28-2014 09:15 AM
Replies: 72 (1937 views)
Last post by: AL87 on 03-12-2014 03:24 PM
TbirdMarc
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02-28-2014 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TbirdMarcClick Here to visit TbirdMarc's HomePageClick Here to Email TbirdMarcSend a Private Message to TbirdMarcEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Saw this on craigslist, not sure if it is bogus

http://philadelphia.craigsl.../bar/4353341226.html

[This message has been edited by TbirdMarc (edited 03-06-2014).]

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LornesGT
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02-28-2014 09:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LornesGTSend a Private Message to LornesGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Since it is only magazine pictures probably.

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Old Lar
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02-28-2014 06:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The blurry photo of a magazine picture, to me, the wheels look like lace wheels painted red or gold (88 Fiero). I had some 87 lace wheels refurbished for $125 each plus tax.

http://wheelsamerica.com/?g...GC8LwCFRQS7AoddlgAlw

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dobey
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02-28-2014 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Old Lar:

The blurry photo of a magazine picture, to me, the wheels look like lace wheels painted red or gold (88 Fiero). I had some 87 lace wheels refurbished for $125 each plus tax.

http://wheelsamerica.com/?g...GC8LwCFRQS7AoddlgAlw


They aren't the lace wheels. They look more like the snowflake wheels on the 2nd gen Trans Am. Like these:



But they are just magazine pictures. Don't know what the pictures are from exactly, but they might have been used on an existing chassis for mocking up the body, or with wheel adapters on a show car or something. I doubt they're actual 5x100 wheels if the seller does have them. They're probably just the Firebird snowflake wheels.

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FTF Engineering
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02-28-2014 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FTF EngineeringSend a Private Message to FTF EngineeringEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The shape looks like the Firebird snowflake, but the offset of the wheels in the magazine pics is much greater.

I think I've met this seller at tech days in the past. Like maybe 10 years ago? The point being, if they've been into Fieros for that long, they would (should?) hopefully know what it is they have.

Of course, if you want to sell something on Craigslist... You don't do it by posting a picture of a picture of what you have.

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Fiero84Freak
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02-28-2014 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero84FreakClick Here to Email Fiero84FreakSend a Private Message to Fiero84FreakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Some that have been in the Fiero game since the beginning will probably chime in and know more than myself;

The pictures in the magazines were Fiero specific wheels. They were introduced on the P-car when it had reached a design point that was suitable for publication outside the various spy shots of the test mules that kept appearing 1981-82. Many of the test mules that were still snagged still used a different style wheel, but the red car that served as a more advanced mule and used for the mag shots had these wheels. There's actually a really good photograph of the red car with Hulki Aldicaki and the other Fiero engineers out there that gets posted every so often. But the wheels were done in various color designs - and I believe even at one point the wheels would have mimic'ed whatever color the car was (so red on red here, and then like black on black for instance if you had that color model).

Feb 1981
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

If those are actually these wheels - like REALLY actually these wheels - then they may be the rarest Fiero item ever to come up for sale. However, I'm questioning this heavily, as the seller is not only selling these on Craigslist but also has no actual photographs of the wheels.

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fierofool
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02-28-2014 11:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Those pictures came from Gary Witzenburg's book, "Fiero Pontiac's Potent Mid-Engine Sports Car". They're found in the first chapter. There are 11 pictures of wood frameworks, clay molds and even what appears to be a roadworthy prototype, each having those wheels. They probably did have real wheels in the 5 x 100 lug pattern. If the seller has them, why not just take a picture of them rather than a picture of a picture in a book. For this item, it would truly be best to heed the Craigslist advice to do business in person so you can see the item. If they're real, it would be quite a find.

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lateFormula
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02-28-2014 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Those wheels in gold on an all black Fiero with a flaming chicken on the hood, that'd be cool.

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03-01-2014 08:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FTF EngineeringSend a Private Message to FTF EngineeringEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'm maybe a half hour from this seller, so if someone is really serious but lives far away wants to front the money, I could maybe go take a look at them.

The "they need to be restored" part of the ad is a little ominous. Anything from a little corrosion under peeling clear coat, to chunks missing?

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rogergarrison
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03-01-2014 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

They def look like the TA wheels to me. Hard to tell in the picture, but it looks like they stick out quite a bit past the fenders...especially the last one. IF they are on a prototype, they could have used adapters to make them like that. If thats true, they will not fit a stock Fiero hub. You just end up trying to sell a set of used wheels to a Firebird or Camaro owner or stacking them up in a corner of a garage or basement.

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TbirdMarc
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03-01-2014 10:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TbirdMarcClick Here to visit TbirdMarc's HomePageClick Here to Email TbirdMarcSend a Private Message to TbirdMarcEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The guy that put the ad up emailed me and said they are legit and he will pull them out and take pics if anyone is seriously interested. Sorry guy, didn't mean to offend you with my bogus comment, if I did.

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03-01-2014 11:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Pulling them out and posting pics of them might make some skeptics legitimately interested.

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dobey
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03-01-2014 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by TbirdMarc:

The guy that put the ad up emailed me and said they are legit and he will pull them out and take pics if anyone is seriously interested. Sorry guy, didn't mean to offend you with my bogus comment, if I did.


Pic with clear measurement of bolt circle would be best. If they're actually 5x100 and authentic OEM wheels, and not replicas, then they'd probably be worth more than he's asking. But if they're just standard Firebird snowflakes (which is very probable), they're probably worth less than half what he's asking.

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03-02-2014 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

A close up photo of one ON a Fiero would clear it up in a second.

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03-02-2014 12:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

As mentioned above by Fierofool, that page is from Gary Witzenburg's book on the Fiero. They use those wheels throughout the entire production of the car so the photo by Dobey is correct.


[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 03-02-2014).]

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rogergarrison
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03-02-2014 02:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The big red one above looks much better than the production one in my opinion. Lots of little details are different.

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03-02-2014 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

The big red one above looks much better than the production one in my opinion. Lots of little details are different.


They look exactly the same to me. What "little details" are you talking about? The picture I posted is a couple of the rear Firebird snowflake wheels, so aside from the offset, what exactly are those details? The Fiero looks to have 4 fronts from the Firebird on it. Beyond that, I see no difference.

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03-02-2014 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'll bet they're a worn out set of garden variety GT wheels OR a worn out set of garden variety T/A snowflakes- IF they're even Pontiac parts and IF they even exist.

The whole thing smells funny.

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dobey
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03-02-2014 03:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well, it's hard to tell where the centers of the lugs are on the pics of the wheels on the Fiero from the book, because they are very low resolution (around 6 pixels per inch, based on the height of the wheels). However, given that information, and a "best guess to click on the center pixel for the lugs," from what I can measure, the wheels on the red car in the pic from the book are in fact, a 5x100 bolt circle (my measurements weren't exact, but they were closer to 100mm, than to 120mm). So they must be one-off wheels that sadly never hit production.

If the seller actually does have 5x100 Snowflakes that are the one-off OE wheels from the book pictures, then someone should definitely buy them.

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Raydar
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03-02-2014 06:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Weren't 5x100 snowflakes available on any of the J car? (That later became the Sunbird?)

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03-02-2014 06:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I found snowflakes for Trans Ams, Firebirds, Grand Prix's, Bonnevilles, Catalinas and even Grand Caravans and a pair of Volkswagen snowflake tail lights, but nothing for the smaller Pontiacs.

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03-03-2014 02:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero84Freak:

Some that have been in the Fiero game since the beginning will probably chime in and know more than myself;

The pictures in the magazines were Fiero specific wheels. They were introduced on the P-car when it had reached a design point that was suitable for publication outside the various spy shots of the test mules that kept appearing 1981-82. Many of the test mules that were still snagged still used a different style wheel, but the red car that served as a more advanced mule and used for the mag shots had these wheels. There's actually a really good photograph of the red car with Hulki Aldicaki and the other Fiero engineers out there that gets posted every so often. But the wheels were done in various color designs - and I believe even at one point the wheels would have mimic'ed whatever color the car was (so red on red here, and then like black on black for instance if you had that color model).

Feb 1981
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

If those are actually these wheels - like REALLY actually these wheels - then they may be the rarest Fiero item ever to come up for sale. However, I'm questioning this heavily, as the seller is not only selling these on Craigslist but also has no actual photographs of the wheels.


As soon as i saw the picture in the original ad, i was thinking this exact same thing. Totally agree. Also, if i had a set of one off, original 5x100 snowflake rims, 1) I would sell them for a hell of a lot more and 2) i'd at least show everyone an actual pic of them.

Rob

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03-03-2014 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VenturaSend a Private Message to VenturaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here's a link to wiki showing a Formula Sunbird with some interesting wheels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Sunbird

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03-03-2014 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The blue 78 appears to have 4 lug wheels, too.

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03-03-2014 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VenturaSend a Private Message to VenturaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

The blue 78 appears to have 4 lug wheels, too.



It would be nice if the Craigslist seller could post some pics and end all of the speculation.

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2.5
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03-04-2014 08:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Ventura:

Here's a link to wiki showing a Formula Sunbird with some interesting wheels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Sunbird


That looks like them with 4 holes. (4x4") BUT only 8 star instead of 10 (outer openings in the snowflake). The Fiero had 10, the Firebird has 10.

The thing is alot of the bolt pattern references I can find online say 79 and up Sunbird is 5x100. Not a common car so they could be wrong.
I did find many that said early Sunbirds bolt pattern was 4 hole x 4 inch, but it said that was from 76-81 which contradicts all the ones that say 79 and up is 5x100.
http://www.rustynutscarclub.com/Lug_nuts.htm

78 * only 8 star instead of 10 (outer openings)


This says 81, Still 4 lug.


The firebird wheels are 5 x 4 3/4, also 10 star instead of 8 (outer openings)


It appears there were no 5x100 rims that looked like these on any mass produced car.

I emailed the craigslist guy and asked:

What bolt pattern are these?
How where they acquired?

he replied

5 x 100
from someone who owed me money years ago

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-04-2014).]

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tesmith66
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03-04-2014 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Still no pics? Why is this so hard?

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dobey
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03-04-2014 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by tesmith66:

Still no pics? Why is this so hard?


Why don't you ask the seller?

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03-04-2014 04:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by tesmith66:

Still no pics? Why is this so hard?


"They're in storage, if someone is serious he'll dig them out"
bla bla typical.

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03-05-2014 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

All info is kind of pulling teeth, today:

Q:
Are they painted red inset like the magazine photo? Any stampings or serial numbers, etc?

A:
they are faded
i dont know about stampings they have old tires on them

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dobey
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03-05-2014 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Q:
Are they painted red inset like the magazine photo?


Are you sure the magazine wheels are red? They look gold/aluminum, the same as the gold Firebird wheels, to me. There is a bit of a red tint to most everything in that picture though, due to the background and lighting. But I think the wheels are the gold/aluminum color.

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03-05-2014 11:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

In the above named book, there is a low quality color photo and the wheels look to have a gold trim inside the spokes. Possibly silver but I'm pretty sure it's gold colored.

The reason the Sunbird has 8 spokes is so that the lug holes don't have to be located through one of the snowflake ribs. Same reason the Transam or Firebird has 10 points.

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03-05-2014 11:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

In the above named book, there is a low quality color photo and the wheels look to have a gold trim inside the spokes. Possibly silver but I'm pretty sure it's gold colored.

The reason the Sunbird has 8 spokes is so that the lug holes don't have to be located through one of the snowflake ribs. Same reason the Transam or Firebird has 10 points.


Looks red to me.

True, just saying if his are 5 bolt they cant be from a sunbird, (sometimes its hard to see the lugnuts), and if they are 5x100 they cant be from a Firebird.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-05-2014).]

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03-05-2014 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

better pic

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lateFormula
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03-05-2014 05:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

One important bit of info that has not yet been revealed in this post or the Craigslist ad is the size of these wheels; are they 14" or 15"?

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03-05-2014 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The front below the molding looks different maybe not. The molding stops at the rear and dont go clear around. The door handle and lock are up higher on the door panel and not in the molding line. The rear bumper looks flater from the side, almost Corvette like. The side mirrors are on the A pillar (door side) and not down on the door skin. The tops of the quarter panels look more square than rounded off. No rack or wing. Body color panel in sunroof rather than glass, and looks larger (looks like it almost comes to the drip rails, and slopes down to the windshield). The air intake is a vertical slit, like some of the aftermarkets, and not the horizontal opening like production. There isnt a peak down the center of the hood on production ones. No visible fuel fill door. From the side, the rear of the roof looks like it has more rake than production which looks more chopped off to me (might just be me). Like I said, lots of little details. Wonder if there are any rear end pics of the same one ?

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-05-2014).]

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03-05-2014 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

better pic



Those look like 4 lug rims. Not 5.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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03-05-2014 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:
Those look like 4 lug rims. Not 5.


They're 5, but hard to see in that particular photo at that angle (you can count the spokes though, and they match the 5 lug pattern, not the 4 lug pattern).

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03-05-2014 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

The front below the molding looks different maybe not. The molding stops at the rear and dont go clear around. The door handle and lock are up higher on the door panel and not in the molding line. The rear bumper looks flater from the side, almost Corvette like. The side mirrors are on the A pillar (door side) and not down on the door skin. The tops of the quarter panels look more square than rounded off. No rack or wing. Body color panel in sunroof rather than glass, and looks larger (looks like it almost comes to the drip rails, and slopes down to the windshield). The air intake is a vertical slit, like some of the aftermarkets, and not the horizontal opening like production. There isnt a peak down the center of the hood on production ones. No visible fuel fill door. From the side, the rear of the roof looks like it has more rake than production which looks more chopped off to me (might just be me). Like I said, lots of little details. Wonder if there are any rear end pics of the same one ?



Oh, you were talking about the whole car. I thought you were talking about the wheels, since this thread is, you know, about the wheels.

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03-05-2014 09:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

lol...

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