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88 Fiero "gravel" noise by 4thfiero
Started on: 02-13-2014 03:00 AM
Replies: 30 (399 views)
Last post by: 4thfiero on 02-13-2014 11:02 PM
4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 03:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey guys, trying to track down a noise in my 5 speed 88 Fiero 2.8l. When accelerating from 3rd (a little hard) 4th and especially 5th the car makes a noise that sounds like it has metal shardes stuck in the engine or tranny, or a cell phone breaking up with static. Has anyone else heard of or had this issue?i dont hear it in 1st or second... Im also still lacking some low end torque power...wondering if it could be related...

also my engine temp randomly gets hot (like halfway to max sometimes) then goes back down to normal in 5 seconds. or sometimes goes 1-3 ticks above normal operating temp. Never completely overheats though

Another weird symptom is my oil pressure guage idles low....when the engine is started cold, i get full pressure...driving it sits around the halfway mark or higher when warm...but when its warm at idle, the needle like to dance and almost goes into the red...oil sender unit was replaced a few years ago.
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Patrick
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Report this Post02-13-2014 03:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

How old is your cat? (No, not the furry one.) Perhaps the insides have all broken up.
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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 03:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
no cat
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Patrick
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Report this Post02-13-2014 03:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

How old's your dog then?
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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 05:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i honestly dont undertand, no cat converter, exhaust system has no leaks.
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Fiero8
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Report this Post02-13-2014 06:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero8Send a Private Message to Fiero8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Take the car out of gear and rev it to 3k. If you hear nothing, I would suspect the trans. It could be a bent finger. Syncro?
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Report this Post02-13-2014 08:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It might be worth checking your timing. Spark knock will show up more readily in the higher gears. Also check the heat shields around your exhaust crossover and slave. Also check your cv joint boots to be sure you haven't ruptured one and lost all the lube.

Temp gauge fluctuations could be due to low coolant.
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Fiero84Freak
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Report this Post02-13-2014 08:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero84FreakClick Here to Email Fiero84FreakSend a Private Message to Fiero84FreakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Google "Getrag rattle". I think you'll find your answer there....

Temp sounds like a residual bubble in the cooling system. May have to perform a full burp (including the heater core).

Do not go off the oil pressure gauge to determine oil pressure, even with a new oil sender. Remove the oil pressure sending unit and hook up a mechanical gauge to the feed tube. Read pressure from that at hot idle.
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carbon
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Report this Post02-13-2014 09:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

i honestly dont undertand, no cat converter, exhaust system has no leaks.


Patrick made a joke... he asked about your catalyst and you didn't have one, so then he made polyseme joke, turned cat into an animal and asked about your dog.

Quite humorous, really...

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 02-13-2014).]

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2.5
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Report this Post02-13-2014 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is the engine tuned up? Wondering if it is just a sound you hear and there is no other symptom like a studder, for instance from old /bad plug wires.

Regarding the coolant temp, the stock fan switch wont kick on until 235 degrees, does the fan come on during these funky gage times?

It is said that on the low end 10 pounds of oil pressure per 1000 rpm is safe. Is your oil fresh, and what weight is it?
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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post02-13-2014 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The sound could be detonation. It might only occur under certain load conditions. This happens a lot on 2.5L Fieros with clogged EGR valves. I don't know about the 2.8.
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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 02:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Engine is tuned, spark plugs and wires are good, idle is fine. if i rev the engine in neutral i dont hear the noise...

Timing seems like a good thing to check
I googled getrag rattle, i considered it but think thats not the case due to other symptoms and fixes.

Can a vacume leak cause this too?
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Report this Post02-13-2014 03:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

Hey guys, trying to track down a noise in my 5 speed 88 Fiero 2.8l. When accelerating from 3rd (a little hard) 4th and especially 5th the car makes a noise that sounds like it has metal shardes stuck in the engine or tranny, or a cell phone breaking up with static..


Depending on your rpm when you are shifting this could also be normal, you might be "dogging" the engine, trying to accelerate while in to high of a gear.
When you get this what rpm just before you shift to the next gear?
Pinging is another good chance.
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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 03:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't believe im dogging the engine, i know accellerating hard out of 5th gear with a low rpm is now efficient, but i also know what sound my engine normal makes if i do that...this is def not it. Pinging might make sense though, i'll have to check my timing...i just drove to work...in 4th and 5th gear i got the noise at about anywhere from 1200 rpm to 1600 rpm, then it goes away. if i accel VERY slowly i can make it not happen. But say your crusing at 60 kph...car infront of you slows to turn...you slow down just for a momen, then accell away? i dont accell very fast in 4th or 5th, but i NEVER get that noise normally.

I pressed my cluch pedal down a bit to see if that would change anything, and sure enough it did? but i dont know if its because i took load off the tranny or engine...and it only stops when the clutch disengages from the tranny and my rpm shoots up. sitting in neutral and raising my rpms to 3k doesnt make the noise.
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Patrick
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Report this Post02-13-2014 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

Engine is tuned...

Timing seems like a good thing to check


Ummm... was the timing not checked when the engine was "tuned"?

Is your EGR functional?

I agree that "pinging" might be an issue here.

Or your dog is just too old.
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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had the timing done twice...but im unsure it was done correctly.,.jumping the a&b terminals in the obd port then setting the timing...i check it again
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Report this Post02-13-2014 03:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Muffler? Exhaust hanger springs broken/loose? The Fiero exhaust is pretty raspy already, and a loose exhaust will exacerbate the noise.. And it can sound a bit like a rattle or grinding sound.
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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah i thought about that too, i took the car to a muffler place 9really good mechanics there) and they found a leak in the flex joint...but no other leaks...or broken hangers...ect.
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Report this Post02-13-2014 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

...in 4th and 5th gear i got the noise at about anywhere from 1200 rpm to 1600 rpm, then it goes away. if i accel VERY slowly i can make it not happen.


This part makes me still think it could still be normal, thats pretty low rpms.
But only you could tell, being the driver.
Did it not do this before and just started doing it? Is this car new to you?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-13-2014).]

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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No it did not do this B4, i spent 2 years doing a frame swap...engine has not changed...tranny did, i had a 4 speed...now i have a 5 speed getrag out of a 92 sunbird with dickmans shift conversion kit. Car was saftied, no check engine lights, engine seems to be okay, except it seems to be lacking low end power...like im draggin a weight. And the tranny was swapped.

The ONLY things i did to the engine, were disassemble the egr, intake manifolds, both upper and lower, removed fuel lines to clean the engine. I was told after i had a big vaccume leak under my lower intake manifold, so i replaced the gasket and torqued everything down...havnt had it smoke tested yet to make sure the leak is gone.

But yeah, NEVER did this before. im very sensitive to things like this...noises and feelings, and when things are supposed to happen and when there not. This is def not normal. I know the sound my engine makes if its dogging...but this isnt it.
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Report this Post02-13-2014 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hmm could be tranny then too.

My 88 Getrag actually has a "getrag rattle", but it only happens in neutral with the clutch not depressed. Never any other time. I have been told possibly input shaft bearing.

Make sure you ahve the right amount of Synchromesh fluid in the tranny.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-13-2014).]

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Report this Post02-13-2014 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

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quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

No it did not do this B4, i spent 2 years doing a frame swap...engine has not changed...tranny did, i had a 4 speed...now i have a 5 speed getrag out of a 92



I have a 2000 Saturn SL with a 5 speed manual that does what you describe too, but its not detonation/pinging. I think it actually sounds like a gear or spacer or someting inside rattling but I havent worked on a tranny myself before. I just rev up the shifts higher. The saturn guys say dont shift before 2500rpm anyway. Its annoying sound but not tranny ending.

A quick test for your pinging is try a higher octane and see if it goes away.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-13-2014).]

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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
okay, i'll try higher octane fuel after work and see what that does. Thanks!
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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 05:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
if it happenes to be a gear rattling or something loose like u say, is there any chance that can be fixed WITHOUT removing the tranny?....*fingers crossed..*
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Report this Post02-13-2014 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5: My 88 Getrag actually has a "getrag rattle", but it only happens in neutral with the clutch not depressed. Never any other time. I have been told possibly input shaft bearing.

On a side note, my Getrag also exhibits this behavior, exactly as you described it. And it's a rebuilt transmission with a new input shaft bearing / seal unit. So while the rattle may be due to play in the input shaft bearing, it seems like that play is built into it.

As for the OP, I'm guessing spark knock. But I'm not really certain.
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Report this Post02-13-2014 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You mentioned that the acceleration is poor, have you checked for dragging brakes?
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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 07:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes sir i have checked for draggin brakes. both myself and professionally. Not the brakes...
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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 07:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My acceleration would be poor though if my timing is off though right?
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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just drove it home with some 91 octane in it....now my gas tank was at about half, and i filled it to 4/3 with premium, but if i had to guess...it did help the noise?...i could step on it a bit more and it didnt make the noise, but it still did....it was softer though and not as long. like it decreased the noise about 50% or so.
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Report this Post02-13-2014 08:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just get a gol' darn timing light on there!

...and hope like heck the outer hub of your harmonic balancer hasn't slipped/spun.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-13-2014).]

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4thfiero
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Report this Post02-13-2014 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ima try that tomorrow, see if she's out...will report back
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