I know it has been covered before but I could not find in the archives the subject of proper timing and timing procedure for the 2.8l V6. I timed the engine the usual way - bring number one cylinder to TDC and align the marks on the pulley, jumper the A & B connections on the ALCL and shoot it with the timing light. I advanced it to get it to pass smog and the idle stayed at about 900 rpm. I disconnected the battery to clear any codes (there were none) and then drove the car to get the memory to get things right once again such as the idle speed. I read where it is best to time it from the coil wire, not number one plug wire, and if so what degree of advance should I settle it at and what should the idle speed be? Is it necessary to jumper the ALCL? I appreciate the input from everyone who has an educated and experienced answer and I want to say thanks well in advance.
A shortcut to what TopNotch posted would be to put the timing light pickup on the coil wire at the distributor, that way you see both 1 and 4 firing as the engine runs and adjust the timing marks by turning the distributor until they are equal on either side of the 10 degree mark.
If you put the pickup on the coil wire, you will see all 6 cylinders. I've clamped 1 and 4 plug wires at the same time to do what you're suggesting. You may have to find a wire from another car if you don't have enough slack to pull them together.
You can time all six cylinders by clipping the inductive lead of the timing light to the coil lead. Position on the coil lead is irrelevant. The harmonic balancer on the 2.8 has the timing groove cut wider than the other two grooves on the outer ring which are both 120° away from the primary timing mark. The primary timing groove on the balancer will show you the timing on cylinders 1 & 4 while the other two smaller grooves will be lit up for cylinders 2, 3, 5 & 6.
Is that best timing, or can more power be had with more advanced timing?
It's a compromise between more power and more emissions. Obviously there's a limit to how far advanced the ignition timing can be set before "pinging" will occur, but with all my cars, I time them by ear for power (and for better fuel mileage), and then temporarily back off the timing (to stock specs) for smog testing.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-10-2014).]
It's a compromise between more power and more emissions. Obviously there's a limit to how far advanced the ignition timing can be set before "pinging" will occur, but with all my cars, I time them by ear for power (and for better fuel mileage), and then temporarily back off the timing (to stock specs) for smog testing.
Would you happen to know what your degrees are for power on the 2.8 just out of curiosity?
Would you happen to know what your degrees are for power on the 2.8 just out of curiosity?
What works best for my engines won't necessarily work with anyone else's. Ambient temperature, humidity, carbon build-up in the combustion chambers, octane level of gas, EGR function, etc etc all contribute.
I use regular gas in all my Fieros and the EGR is functional on all of them.
My '84 duke 5-spd has the most power with the timing set right at the top of the inscribed scale (whatever reading that is), although the idle quality suffers a bit. I think my '86 GT automatic is timed pretty high as well, but I honestly forget where it is. However, I notice if I try to time my '88 Formula 5-spd more than an extra 4° above factory timing, it sort of surges if I'm in gear with low revs. I haven't worked all the bugs out of this Formula yet, so I'm hoping I can eventually advance the timing more with no surging (and well before it starts pinging).
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-12-2014).]
What works best for my engines won't necessarily work with anyone else's. Ambient temperature, humidity, carbon build-up in the combustion chambers, octane level of gas, EGR function, etc etc all contribute.
I use regular gas in all my Fieros and the EGR is functional on all of them.
My '84 duke 5-spd has the most power with the timing set right at the top of the inscribed scale (whatever reading that is), although the idle quality suffers a bit. I think my '86 GT automatic is timed pretty high as well, but I honestly forget where it is. However, I notice if I try to time my '88 Formula 5-spd more than an extra 4° above factory timing, it sort of surges if I'm in gear with low revs. I haven't worked all the bugs out of this Formula yet, so I'm hoping I can eventually advance the timing more with no surging (and well before it starts pinging).
You need to set timing with the automatic in gear? Never heard that before but I'll give it a try. You still need to jump the connectors using all the methods described above correct?
You need to set timing with the automatic in gear? Never heard that before but I'll give it a try. You still need to jump the connectors using all the methods described above correct?
Never heard that before either. like they say at Wikipedia.....(needs citation).
It appears that no one looks at the underside of their decklids.
I may have originally gotten that info from my Haynes or more probably right here on the forum. I followed that advice and mine runs well. Yes, you still jump the pins in the ALDL. I also used the Coil wire instead of the individual cylinder wires. Works just fine.
Dang, I've looked at it and read it a few times but I must have thought not to worry about it. I'll try it out this weekend as I'll have a helper man the wheel/ brake/ trans/ you get the idea!
Well I did it and the car seems to run really good but it wasn't running that bad to begin with but it was off. Got it set and distributor clamped down so now I start seeing if I notice any difference driving it during the week. I'll also check fuel economy and see if that improves as well.
Drove the car to work today and man it runs WAY better, Imagine that! I always figured that it was just a clapped out doggie V-6 but that little bit of fine tuning shows just how important that extra little bit of fine tuning really is plus it seems to run just a little smoother as well. I should have MPG numbers in a couple days.
So is the ping easy to detect if you advance the timing to far ?
For anyone who knows what to listen for, yes. For the uninitiated, you don't want to miss it... as doing so could eventually destroy your engine.
It's a bit trickier with an automatic, as it'll want to kick down a gear, but... While running Regular gas, what I do (after timing to factory specs) is floor the gas pedal in high gear while doing 30 mph up a slight incline. When an engine is timed to the factory specs, you shouldn't hear any pinging. I then advance the distributor a couple of degrees (turn it counterclockwise) and go through the procedure again. Eventually after doing this a few times, pinging should be apparent. It's like a rattling sound as you try to accelerate under the conditions I've laid out. Once you hear the rattling, retard the timing to at least where you had it previously... and then for good measure, retard it another degree or so. You simply do not want it pinging under any circumstances.
Newer cars can can pull (retard) the ignition timing to prevent engine damage. The Fiero ECU/ignition system is not capable of doing this. The engine will eventually beat itself to death if the ignition timing is too far advanced. You have been warned!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-17-2024).]
I remember ping from the old days, I think I timed it at 12* thinking it was close to 11*
I'll have to check it again tomorrow, I was just north of my mark thinking it was 10 3/4
So when looking at the scale it's from above, it would seem it should be viewed from the side. But thats not possible. So if it looks like it's at 12* is it really at 10* ?
You guys understand what I'm saying..
[This message has been edited by hunter29 (edited 08-18-2024).]
Never heard that before either. like they say at Wikipedia.....(needs citation).
