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Lowering, is it a Problem ? by Lou6t4gto
Started on: 01-31-2014 07:55 PM
Replies: 13 (1673 views)
Last post by: rogergarrison on 02-04-2014 07:55 PM
Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post01-31-2014 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After either cutting a coil, or changing springs, has any one ever Had a Problem "ALIGNING" their fiero after a 1" drop in front ?? the upper joint doesn't allow for ALOT of adjustment. Experiences ? Thanks
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grkboy707
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Report this Post01-31-2014 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for grkboy707Click Here to Email grkboy707Send a Private Message to grkboy707Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do not cut the springs!! Lowering springs or cutting/heating/whatever will put way too much stress on your struts. Coil overs are the only way to do It right. Even then, with a lowering comes a change in the CV joint angle, which should be straight. Sorry, I'm just very biased when it comes to lowering.
As for aligning, I don't see a major problem. Depends on the design of the suspension, which I can't picture right now

[This message has been edited by grkboy707 (edited 01-31-2014).]

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tebailey
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Report this Post01-31-2014 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There are no CV's or struts on the front.
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Canyonflyer
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Report this Post01-31-2014 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CanyonflyerSend a Private Message to CanyonflyerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've used Eibach Pro springs for both my Fiero's and yes it does change the geometry enough where you're going to have to use aftermarket adjustable ball joints. I was about to get about 0.5 degrees negative camber using slotted MOOG ball joints on the upper control arms. When I went to do the second car, I just attached the ball joints slid inboard as far as they would go and had my wheels aligned. I've had no issues with them.

The rears you'll definitely need cam bolts for the struts. Without them you're going to have a pretty funky looking rear end.

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1985 Pontiac Fiero Sport 2.5 liter 5 speed Isuzu
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT 2.8 liter 5 speed Muncie 282

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post01-31-2014 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
what Ball joints did you use ? (brand-adjustable)?? did the springs make it "Ride" any Harder ?
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post01-31-2014 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you cut 1 coil off the front and 1/2 coil on the back it will not hurt your suspension. It does require re-alignment which is easy enough on a Fiero.

the reason I have not lowered mine is that I had a lowered car for about 10 years. It had 2.5" clearance at the lowest point and it was a pain in the neck.

You have to watch all driveway entrances, manholes, and any other rise to get over. I can guarantee after a few years you will bottom out at least once.

Hope this helps

Arn
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Canyonflyer
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Report this Post01-31-2014 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CanyonflyerSend a Private Message to CanyonflyerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

what Ball joints did you use ? (brand-adjustable)?? did the springs make it "Ride" any Harder ?



I used Masterpro ball joints on the first car. The second car has MOOG ball joints all the way around. The only reason I went with MOOG on the second car is because I set up the suspension for track use. The Masterpro Balljoints are less than half the price and in nearly two years I've had no issues with them whatsoever.

The Eibach springs did make the ride noticeably firmer. The car with the Masterpros has Monroe Sensatrac shocks. Other than the springs it's stock for the most part. For every day street use it isn't bone jarring by any means.

The other car with the MOOG ball joints has polyurethane bushings, KYB shocks and struts, upgraded front stabilizer bar and a stabilizer bar installed in the rear. It's stiffer than the suspension on my dad's Porsche Boxster.

Hope this helps.


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1985 Pontiac Fiero Sport 2.5 liter 5 speed Isuzu
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT 2.8 liter 5 speed Muncie 282

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olejoedad
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Report this Post02-01-2014 07:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No issue with cutting springs with a cutoff wheel, as Arn has stated.
Dont go too far or ride and handling will suffer.
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fieroguru
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Report this Post02-01-2014 08:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have never lowered an 84-87, but did remove the front spring and swaybar to see when it would be resting on the bump stop:



What this means is that if you lower your car 1" in the front, you really should raise the bump stop between 1/2 and 3/4". Then check the range of motion for the front shock to make sure you still still hit the raised bump stop before the shock bottoms out. These two checks will help ensure that you can drive your car normally w/o hitting the bump stops more frequently or even riding on them 100% of the time (this is what causes the "bouncy ride") depending on the amount of lowering. Then worry about the alignment. With the slotted/flipped ball joints and the ability to slot the holes in the upper a-arm, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to get the front aligned and have about 1/2 degree negative camber. On the 88's when the front is severely lowered, they have to extend slot for the upper arm mounting bolts to gain more adjustment.

 
quote
Originally posted by grkboy707:

Do not cut the springs!! Lowering springs or cutting/heating/whatever will put way too much stress on your struts. Coil overs are the only way to do It right. Even then, with a lowering comes a change in the CV joint angle, which should be straight. Sorry, I'm just very biased when it comes to lowering.
As for aligning, I don't see a major problem. Depends on the design of the suspension, which I can't picture right now



Properly cut springs (use a cutoff disk) or lowering springs are not any issue as long as you do the two checks I mentioned above. You only stress the shocks (front) and struts (rear) if you set your car up to allow them to bottom out internally. In the rear you can flip the strut hat to gain more suspension travel in compression to lessen the chance of bottoming out the strut.

As for the CV joints - they are supposed to run at an angle. The angle keeps the rollers/balls moving around in the grease and spreads the wear over a larger area to improve longevity. The Fiero engine bay is tight enough in all directions that there just isn't enough room to move the drivetrain or lover the suspension to the point of having a "bad" CV angle. The appropriate axle length is far more important to CV binding/failure than the angle. The binding is usually the tripod rollers either coming out of the cage at extreme angles or bottoming out in the backside of the cage - both are length issues. That's why you should remove the springs and cycle the suspension full droop to full compression while hand turning the wheel to check for any binding.
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hnthomps
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Report this Post02-02-2014 11:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rodney Dickman sells lowering ball joints in a couple of sizes (0.5" and 1.0") and they work reasonably well. I have a set on an 88 Mera and they have been installed for at least five years and a lot of miles.

Nelson
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Blacktree
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Report this Post02-02-2014 12:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think several mfgrs offer slotted upper ball-joints for the '84-87 Fiero, so that shouldn't be a problem. And if you're going to get the lowering ball-joints from Rodney Dickman, you might as well get the slotted uppers from him as well.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post02-04-2014 01:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
was "wondering" , How much will it help "FILL UP the wheel well" going FROM 15x7 w/215 60 TO 16x7 and w/ 215 front and 235x60 rear ? Maybe I can get a "Lowered LOOK" without actually lowering it ?
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Blacktree
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Report this Post02-04-2014 01:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you increase the overall wheel diameter to fill the wheel wells, it will also raise the car higher off the ground... unless you lower it.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post02-04-2014 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your still using 60 series tires, so there not going to fill the wheelwells any more. You need to increase the ouside diameter of the tire package, like going to a 70 series or even a 75. Of course that will also throw your speedo readings off a little. Yes it will also raise the car the same amount ( but not increase the body height above the wheels). The taller tire will also improve the ride, but may hurt the handling. Old muscle cars look great with tall 70 series tires that really pack out the wheelwells with 5/6 inch tall sidewalls. You got them so wide, you needed air shocks to keep them from hitting the fenders.
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