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Complete swap? by Zeak
Started on: 01-16-2014 11:45 AM
Replies: 22 (768 views)
Last post by: fireboss on 03-10-2014 04:11 AM
Zeak
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Report this Post01-16-2014 11:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ZeakSend a Private Message to ZeakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have my 88 Fiero with the W02 factory appearance package.
I love the car because of how unique it is.
What I don't love is the 5 speed isuzu and 2.5 duke combo.
The last few owners were not very kind to the ol' girl.
I've been looking over my repair manual and I came up with another
question for you guys/gals.
If I have access to a parts yard with alot of FWD cars.
Are there any that I could get that would not require very many modifications
to bolt into my fiero? It's pretty much a FWD clip on the rear of a car.(I think)
I'm just sick of replacing old parts and seals, just to have others fail.
If I could replace most of the mechanical along with the ecm and whatnot with 2000-2010 parts. I feel I would
be much better off and still have the fiero I have always wanted.
Thanks

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1988 Fiero 2.5

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Custom2M4
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Report this Post01-16-2014 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Custom2M4Click Here to Email Custom2M4Send a Private Message to Custom2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Find an 87-88 fiero and pull the 2.8l and everything that comes with it. That's your easiest swap.

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Zeak
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Report this Post01-16-2014 12:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ZeakSend a Private Message to ZeakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, but I would still be dealing with 20+ year old parts and I could never do an engine swap
for a power plant that old without a complete rebuild.
I can alter the cradle and mounting points. I just dont want to have to build a new engine cradle from scratch.

------------------

1988 Fiero 2.5

[This message has been edited by Zeak (edited 01-16-2014).]

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tampalinc
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Report this Post01-16-2014 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tampalincSend a Private Message to tampalincEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A 3.4 or 3800 swap might fit the bill. Both have been done many times. It all depends on what you are looking for and your personal preferences.
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Custom2M4
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Report this Post01-16-2014 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Custom2M4Click Here to Email Custom2M4Send a Private Message to Custom2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you do as I said with the 2.8L out of the fiero, you can replace the long block with a 3.4PR motor out of an 93-95 Camaro. That will give you a newer engine with lower kms, still maintain the factory fiero look, and you will have all the accessories required (including the fiero intake manifolds), and exhaust.

That will be your most complete swap, easiest and cheapest. If you want a (FWD specific) engine to swap in, your looking at the 3800 as stated above, or the 3.1L (same as above instructions for Camaro engine, just not as much power), the 3.4DOHC, 4.9L V8.. Do a search to complete your home work. The information on here is unreal.

There are tens of engines thrown into fieros, the above are the most known and done. Most engine swaps don't require new, even my northstar V8 requires only modifications to the cradle.
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Gall757
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Report this Post01-17-2014 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
People are not recommending a newer engine because the engine computer won't work in a Fiero. Swaps get more complicated, and in some cases, the computers are so much faster that they can't deal with the slow Fiero components.
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Report this Post01-17-2014 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Fiero uses OBD-1 engine controls, which are obsolete. Any engine swap, aside from another late 80s / early 90s Duke, will require an ECM swap, and wiring mods.

Sorry to be so negative, but I don't think there is going to be a "plug and play" swap.
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Custom2M4
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Report this Post01-17-2014 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Custom2M4Click Here to Email Custom2M4Send a Private Message to Custom2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well the 3800' is close to plug and play, as you could buy a harness. It just gets kinda pricey.
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ericjon262
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Report this Post01-17-2014 05:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Custom2M4:

Well the 3800' is close to plug and play, as you could buy a harness. It just gets kinda pricey.


not really. you can make it more of a 'bolt in" swap with custom mounts, harness, and fuel lines, but that's far from plug and play in my book. a 34/3500 would be closer to plug and play. not quite there, but it can be made to use all stock mounts and accessories of the 2.8.

------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Old Lar
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Report this Post01-17-2014 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You will be spending $2000 for just about anything you will swap in. A 3.4 from a Camaro is a 20 year old engine and will need a rebuild, a 2.8 from a Fiero is about 25-28 years old and will need a rebuild. A 3800 will need custom wire harness, computer and may need a rebuild. Any later year engine will not fit without custom mount, exhaust, computer and wiring.

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Report this Post01-18-2014 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Old Lar:

You will be spending $2000 for just about anything you will swap in. A 3.4 from a Camaro is a 20 year old engine and will need a rebuild, a 2.8 from a Fiero is about 25-28 years old and will need a rebuild. A 3800 will need custom wire harness, computer and may need a rebuild. Any later year engine will not fit without custom mount, exhaust, computer and wiring.


I'll say again, a 3100, 3400, or 3500 can be made to fit very easily. swap timing covers, and the thing literally bolts in. yes the cover swap takes a couple of small mods, but nothing outside the scope of a halfway decent gearhead. the hardest part would be the 7730 swap and the tune.

------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Report this Post01-18-2014 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaybug56Click Here to Email jaybug56Send a Private Message to jaybug56Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Zeak:

I can alter the cradle and mounting points. I just dont want to have to build a new engine cradle from scratch.


I think Zeak is looking to take an entire FWD cradle and mount that to a Fiero

Good question.

With my limited knowledge i would say no, it won't work. But I am an idiot, so it might be possible
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Custom2M4
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Report this Post01-19-2014 02:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Custom2M4Click Here to Email Custom2M4Send a Private Message to Custom2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jaybug56:


I think Zeak is looking to take an entire FWD cradle and mount that to a Fiero

Good question.

With my limited knowledge i would say no, it won't work. But I am an idiot, so it might be possible


If this is what he is asking, then the answer is no. Simply put, it's not exactly a fwd set up in the rear. There is no rear steering, so the suspension and mounting points are unique'ish to the fiero. But the trans and engine can be removed from several cars and installed into a fiero.
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Zeak
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Report this Post03-08-2014 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ZeakSend a Private Message to ZeakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not to go digging around in old-ish topics, but I'm still set on... well... Anything but what I have now.
I dont get why everyone keeps saying that the "basic" idea will not work.
I suggest a complete rebuild of the ol' duke. Everyone flips out.
I suggest an engine swap thats not a super duke, v6 or v8. Everyone flips out.
People can swap gsxr1000's into smart cars. They can swap a turbo honda into an mr2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD0dBAxG7iU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FghHghOaypM

What is the problem with something along the same lines in a fiero?
The power of these swaps might not be usable in everyday driving, but still.

------------------

1988 Fiero 2.5

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Report this Post03-08-2014 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Zeak:
What is the problem with something along the same lines in a fiero?


There's nothing wrong with the basic idea of swapping another engine into a Fiero. But it's not trivial. You can't just take a cradle from a brand new Civic and throw it into a Fiero. You need to fit the K series engine and transmission to the Fiero cradle.

A 4g63 has been swapped into a Fiero, as have Chrysler and Ford engines. It's not impossible, but it's not simple. If you don't know what you're doing, you'll get overwhelmed quickly, and waste a lot of money. And it's going to take a fair bit of time and money to get such a swap working properly in a Fiero.
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Report this Post03-08-2014 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got the impression you were looking for a "plug and play" swap. If I was mistaken, then I apologize.
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Zeak
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Report this Post03-08-2014 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ZeakSend a Private Message to ZeakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I know it's not that simple, but it seemed like the was way too much negative to the hole idea.
Sorry for the rant guys....
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Report this Post03-08-2014 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why not purchase a duke short block and have the head rebuilt and port and polish everything. You would then have a "new' engine that would perform well. The Isuzu 5 speed has very good gear spacing for the duke.
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Report this Post03-08-2014 11:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Zeak:
I know it's not that simple, but it seemed like the was way too much negative to the hole idea.
Sorry for the rant guys....


It's not negativity. It's experience.

It's not uncommon for someone new to join the forum, say they are going to swap drivetrain X into the Fiero, have no idea what they are actually doing, waste some money on parts, post a few pics, and then they are never heard from again, because the project was way more than they could handle.

If your car is remotely close to being a daily driver, and you don't have the cash to drop and pay someone to have it done in a week or two, and aren't doing a well documented and "easy" swap, you can end up without being able to drive the Fiero for a very long time.

So, the replies were not being negative, but trying to encourage you to do something you can actually get done, to help you enjoy your car, rather than suffer through trying to get an undocumented and difficult swap done. Because we've all seen way too many enthusiastic people who want to do a unique and complex swap just to be different, who failed to finish the swaps, and have disappeared. That, or they get extremely frustrated, and go bat guano crazy with negative posts about the Fiero and whatever, and end up getting themselves banned.
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Report this Post03-09-2014 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for no2pencilClick Here to Email no2pencilSend a Private Message to no2pencilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There are a number of members on this form :

 
quote
Originally posted by Zeak:
I suggest a complete rebuild of the ol' duke. Everyone flips out.

Some would not do this.
 
quote
Originally posted by Zeak:
I suggest an engine swap thats not a super duke, v6 or v8. Everyone flips out.

Some would not do this.

Myself, I did the 2.5 auto to a 2.8 (upgraded / 3.4L) to manual. But it took years & lots of financial troubleshooting (because I'm a mechanical dolt). Don't put so much thought into what others suggest with your car. It's your car. Go with what you want.

If you ask any of my family or friends, they say the entire car is a waste of time & money

[This message has been edited by no2pencil (edited 03-09-2014).]

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Report this Post03-09-2014 10:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TXOPIEClick Here to visit TXOPIE's HomePageClick Here to Email TXOPIESend a Private Message to TXOPIEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hands down I would and continue to do 3800-SC swaps in my Fieros.

They are so well documented, have several members with strong knowledge of how to do the swap and very willing to share their knowledge.
And to boot you can purchase every piece you need to do the swap.

I also have a guy in the DFW area that is setting up to specialize in 3800-SC swaps and large list of upgrades specifically for our lovely Fieros!

Now this is just my opinion and sure some will want to argue this with me...but the 3800-SC is a perfectly matched engine for the Fiero.
It sits in that sweet spot. Anything less, is just lacking and the V8s at times can be a little too much power for the car and can cause other compounding issues.

[This message has been edited by TXOPIE (edited 03-09-2014).]

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Report this Post03-09-2014 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofinderClick Here to Email fierofinderSend a Private Message to fierofinderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Get an entire front clip from a Honda or Nissan with a DOHC engine. Come with tranny, wiring, ecm, half shafts. Have to modify mounts, wiring harness, cooling lines, throttle cable, exhaust, etc. Lots of work but worth it. There have been crazier things done to Fieros, and I'm ready to read about something a little different. My girlfriends Nissan Altima is a N/A 3.5 v6 gets roughly 24 miles to the gallon highway and has something like 245hp. No mods. My 3.4 Fiero has a ton of mods that cost a lot of money and I probably wont hit 200hp when I'm all done. Gas mileage is probably worse too. Oh and the Nissan has around 175,000 miles on it and still purs like a kitten. That being said I love my Fiero, I wouldn't want to drive anything else, but if you can get a better engine in it then do it. It will be that much better.
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Report this Post03-10-2014 04:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for firebossClick Here to Email firebossSend a Private Message to firebossEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TXOPIE:



I also have a guy in the DFW area that is setting up to specialize in 3800-SC swaps and large list of upgrades specifically for our lovely Fieros!




Little more Info
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