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Tuned up the 4.9 and now it won't start by paulcal
Started on: 01-05-2014 12:42 PM
Replies: 20 (392 views)
Last post by: paulcal on 06-22-2014 08:56 PM
paulcal
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Report this Post01-05-2014 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just put new plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, coil and ingnition module in the 4.9. The ignition module I installed last week and the rest of it today. After installing new plugs and wires is when the problem started that it wouldn't start. The coil cover on the 4.9 is clearly marked as to what wire goes to what cyclinder. I have double and triple checked that. I'm using NGK iridium ix plugs gapped to 0.060, Autolite 8mm wires. I've done tons of tune ups on my cars but this one has me baffled.

Anybody run into a problem like this or have any solutions?

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Raydar
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Report this Post01-05-2014 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are you sure you don't have the even and odd banks reversed? Just a thought.
Can you smell gas? If not, you might be chasing an ignition problem, and it's really a fueling problem. Coincidences happen.
Did you verify the connections at the distributor where 12v, tach, and etc connect?
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paulcal
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Report this Post01-05-2014 01:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your right on the money Raydar. No pressure at the fuel rail but enough spark to knock me on my tail.
Time to check fuses and relays.

Thanks
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paulcal
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Report this Post01-05-2014 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
All the fuses check out and I bought a new relay but it still didn't fire. The weird part is that it was running fine last night.
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n7vrz
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Report this Post01-05-2014 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for n7vrzClick Here to Email n7vrzSend a Private Message to n7vrzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Okay, you bought a new relay. Do you now have fuel pressure?
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post01-06-2014 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Depending on how the distributor was installed, the numbers on the cap may or may not be correct.

Take out the #6 plug (it's easier than the #1) and stick your assistant's finger into the spark plug hole. The take a wrench on the balancer bolt rotate the engine clockwise. When your assistant starts making noises and the piston is coming up on compression continue turning until the timing marks align. Stop and look at where the rotor is pointed. THAT will be your #6 spark plug tower. Follow around with the rest of the plug wires using the firing order. Note that the 4.9 distributor turns counterclockwise.



When checking for fuel pressure are you doing it right after the fuel pump primes?
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KurtAKX
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Report this Post01-06-2014 01:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you did something to leave the ignition module disconnected from the ECM, the ECM won't know to run the fuel pump.

Is the tach working when you crank it?
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paulcal
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Report this Post06-20-2014 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found out that it was the fuel pump that failed. In diagnosing the problem a bad connection in the wiring harness was also discovered. Between the bad connection and flooded relay, I think that's what was killing the fuel pumps in this car. After replacing the fuel pump and getting it running again it had a bad miss on #1 cylinder. Turned out to be a bad injector, replaced that it it runs like a scalded cat again. The only problem left is the starter dragging to the point that it won't start after it warms up. Took the starter off yesterday and dropped it off to be rebuilt today. Whew.
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deanearl
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Report this Post06-20-2014 06:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for deanearlSend a Private Message to deanearlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad you took care of your problem. I have been chasing a miss which I can't narrow down to any one or two cylinders on my 4.9. Watching timing light all appear to have consistent spark and listening to injectors with long screwdriver pressed to injector and ear they all sound like they are working. I was wondering how you narrowed down your bad injector or missfire to #1 cylider?
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paulcal
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Report this Post06-20-2014 07:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pulled the harness plug off one at a time. If it gets worse, that's not the one. I got lucky and started with #1 cylinder.
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deanearl
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Report this Post06-20-2014 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for deanearlSend a Private Message to deanearlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How did you determine if it was spark or injector?
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post06-20-2014 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by paulcal:

The only problem left is the starter dragging to the point that it won't start after it warms up.


Can be caused by too much advance.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post06-20-2014 08:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:


Can be caused by too much advance.


Also can be caused by no starter shims, if it had some to begin with and he had replaced the starter recently.

Steve

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and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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deanearl
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Report this Post06-20-2014 10:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for deanearlSend a Private Message to deanearlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How did you determine if it was spark or injector?
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paulcal
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Report this Post06-21-2014 06:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by deanearl:

How did you determine if it was spark or injector?


I checked the resistance of all the injectors, most of them were 17 ohms, the bad one was 1.5 ohms.
I had 2 different mechanics tell me that the starter was most likely going bad. The problem started before the tune up and as far as I know, the starter has never been replaced.
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Raydar
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Report this Post06-21-2014 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The same thing happened to my starter. I've heard of several people with the same symptom. Heat seems to deteriorate them badly.
If you don't mind the sticker shock, replace it with the gear reduction starter from an Allante. It seems to be a much better starter.
My starter was ordered for a '91, but they all should be the same. Especially 89 thru 92. (4.5 engine.)

I'm happy that you found a fix for your other issues.

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Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

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paulcal
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Report this Post06-21-2014 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll keep that Allante starter in mind, thanks. I looked on Rock Auto and they have remans for $100. That's not too bad.

 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

The same thing happened to my starter. I've heard of several people with the same symptom. Heat seems to deteriorate them badly.
If you don't mind the sticker shock, replace it with the gear reduction starter from an Allante. It seems to be a much better starter.
My starter was ordered for a '91, but they all should be the same. Especially 89 thru 92. (4.5 engine.)

I'm happy that you found a fix for your other issues.



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Neils88
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Report this Post06-21-2014 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by paulcal:

I'll keep that Allante starter in mind, thanks. I looked on Rock Auto and they have remans for $100. That's not too bad.



Just got mine from RockAuto last week. Cost me $78 plus shipping.

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paulcal
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Report this Post06-21-2014 10:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's funny that you should post that just now, I was just reading your build thread. I just finished page two. Very impressive work.
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Raydar
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Report this Post06-21-2014 11:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by paulcal:

I'll keep that Allante starter in mind, thanks. I looked on Rock Auto and they have remans for $100. That's not too bad.



The other advantage is that if you are using a manual tranny, you don't have to remove a wedge shaped section of the bellhousing to clear the starter snout.
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paulcal
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Report this Post06-22-2014 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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