I would knock off the heaviest part of the rust with a wire brush (or wire wheel in a drill motor) and treat the rest with Krud Kutter The Must For Rust available at Lowe's or Home Depot. Krud Kutter is a rust REMOVER and INHIBITER.
Im sure you allready know, but your going to neeed a large paper clip or nail to hold the brushes in (theres a hold in the back of the case for this),when putting the case back together.
tooth picks are also good for holding back the brushes.
one thing to bear in mind - if you intend to paint the alternator make sure it still grounds with the car or you will see the charge light come on.
I found this out the other year and ended up using a ground strap from my top bolt of the alternator to the dog bone bolt (btw the alternator brackets had also been powder coated)
jon
[This message has been edited by jon m (edited 01-19-2014).]
do you have a source for a higher output voltage regulator? (I get confused, the voltage regulator controls amp output right?)
ive purchased both completely new and remanufactured stock alternators for my v6 fiero and they don't last anymore than a month or two before they "pop" and stop charging at 13.5-14 and start staying around 12 or so. its of because the alternators "duty cycle" the alternators I've gotten cant hold upto the headlights and ac being on with a standard aftermarket radio setup (head unit and better speakers).
I've found some aftermarket high output alternators out there that would fit, but I'm sure most of us here are mechanically inclined, so that is why I asked. I'd like to rebuild my working alternator, and just replace the voltage regulator to increase the power output.
To get higher amps you need to replace the windings, then you need better parts to support the higher amps. (Mine is a 170 amp in a stock size case) and no I don't know anything about it execpt how to rebuild it. (pick-a-part score)
To get higher amps you need to replace the windings, then you need better parts to support the higher amps. (Mine is a 170 amp in a stock size case) and no I don't know anything about it execpt how to rebuild it. (pick-a-part score)
that is what I figured, I was reading up on it some more and that is the conclusion I got with my findings. too bad these parts aren't easy to get, and you have to buy a whole assembly. 100 bucks isn't bad for one, with a year warranty though..
Wasting time and money to fix dead 12SI Alternator.
You do all this and you still get same poor performance SI Alternator. CS series are better in most ways. CS130 generates more power for same engine load and uses 2 fans. (Old CS use weak bearing on back side. Current OE and Aftermarket makes better bearings.) See my Cave, Watt Story
OE 12SI Max Amps is 94a and many are lower, 66a or 78a peak amps. Upping Current rating needs new Stator. Regulation and Diode Trio can be the same part. Better Diode affect only part life, not amp output.
Wasting time and money to fix dead 12SI Alternator.
You do all this and you still get same poor performance SI Alternator. CS series are better in most ways. CS130 generates more power for same engine load and uses 2 fans. (Old CS use weak bearing on back side. Current OE and Aftermarket makes better bearings.) See my Cave, Watt Story
OE 12SI Max Amps is 94a and many are lower, 66a or 78a peak amps. Upping Current rating needs new Stator. Regulation and Diode Trio can be the same part. Better Diode affect only part life, not amp output.
is the fiero electrical system going to be okay with a full electrical load on just 11 more amps?
EDIT to add: ..."Yes, the voltage meter still jumps when turn signals are on, but not nearly as hard."
I don't think its a bad concept to swap the alternators over, in fact it looks awesome, considering the less volume of the swapped alt on the install onto the v6. the electrical system seems stable with it. but still... my experience with the stock alt is as such, the needle just dips too much, then the alt pops, and after that, I have to run with no acc's just so when I do use the turn signals, the belt doesn't start squealing. and for some reason, it only squeals when theres an excess load put on the alt. this is a grat thread and I'm learning some very useful info!
[This message has been edited by AL87 (edited 05-01-2014).]
Wasting time and money to fix dead 12SI Alternator.
You do all this and you still get same poor performance SI Alternator. CS series are better in most ways. CS130 generates more power for same engine load and uses 2 fans. (Old CS use weak bearing on back side. Current OE and Aftermarket makes better bearings.) See my Cave, Watt Story
OE 12SI Max Amps is 94a and many are lower, 66a or 78a peak amps. Upping Current rating needs new Stator. Regulation and Diode Trio can be the same part. Better Diode affect only part life, not amp output.
I had problems trying to swap to a CS, I think it fried them. on another note, my biggest resaon for not going to a CS, is you can't push start it if the battery is tottaly dead(below iirc 9volts), they do not self excite. I have tested this on a bench. but I am alittle jadded with my SI 170 amp.
Originally posted by sardonyx247: I had problems trying to swap to a CS, I think it fried them. {and} you can't push start it if the battery is tottaly dead...
Many have followed Wombat's directions here. Is a very common upgrade, not only for old GM but other brands of vehicles. You got bad CS, Something is wrong with your car and/or can't follow Wombat's directions for whatever reason.
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247: Um, an alternator IS a battery charger.
No Alternator is design to charge a dead battery, below 11-10v. Low/Dead battery draws huge amps from the Alternator. SI have a very long history problems, like blowing Diode(s), by doing as you say above. This is Why GM Made CS with low volt cutoff.
A normal starting Battery gets damage when you fast charge battery when under 10v. Alternator will fast charge if it survives. Just draw down under 11v (yes, eleven) will shorten battery life. Even Optima deep cycles have problem, like short life, when you put too much charge amps, especially when battery is under 10v. Lead Acid, Li-Ion and most other rechargeable batteries have small windows design to work. May make power til total dead but will affect longevity. Most Li-Ion, NiMH, NiCd chargers won't charge a dead cell/battery because battery can burst/explode. Many Car battery chargers are too dump and will try to charge a very low to dead battery and can cause battery busting/explosion.
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247: but I am alittle jadded with my SI 170 amp.
Advertise Amps, 170 105 etc, are Peak Amps. Peak Amps are just that. Is Maximum Power possible and most cars only see that on the highway. If you use "power pulley" then not even on highway in many cars. (This is covered in Watt Story...)
Same Peak Amps, 12SI makes Less amps vs CS130 at low to cruise RPM from engine. 12SI puts more engine load vs. CS130. This is why "just 11 more amps" can and often does matter and is why Rodney and others says use power pulley then switch to CS.
All Alternators generate heat to make power. CS130 has second fan to cool electronics. Second fans work with plastic "Shield" inside of the alt to suck air thru heatsink on diode set and over the regulator. SI w/ one fan on outside is much less effective. Is why GM installed extra blower for V6 Fiero in 85-87 years.
Originally posted by theogre: You got bad CS, Something is wrong with your car.
Very possible.
quote
Originally posted by theogre: eek: No Alternator is design to charge a dead battery, below 11-10v. Low/Dead battery draws huge amps from the Alternator. SI have a very long history problems, like blowing Diode(s), by doing as you say above. This is Why GM Made CS with low volt cutoff..
I ment in general. I know DEAD batteries you have to start out with very low amps to charge.
quote
Originally posted by theogre: Advertise Amps, 170 105 etc, are Peak Amps. Peak Amps are just that. Is Maximum Power possible and most cars only see that on the highway. If you use "power pulley" then not even on highway in many cars. (This is covered in Watt Story...)
Same Peak Amps, 12SI makes Less amps vs CS130 at low to cruise RPM from engine. 12SI puts more engine load vs. CS130. This is why "just 11 more amps" can and often does matter and is why Rodney and others says use power pulley then switch to CS.
This I know, thus why I wanted to switch to the CS in the first place, I had charging problems at idle, no power pully, I have alot of accesories and amps. But with this 170 I have no problems at idle any more, it was made for car audio.
Don't get me wrong, the CS IS a better performing alternator, especialy at idle, amp for amp rating. and engine load is negligible, at full draw the stock 94 amp only takes about 2 HP,
The BIG draw is the radiator fan, running it is about 18 or so amps, not so much of a big deal, to start it, it pulls around 80 amps, I have tested this with 3 different amp meters to be sure. I used to have my fan on with the key, or the A/C always on. (This is Vegas and it is damn hot here)
Originally posted by sardonyx247: The BIG draw is the radiator fan, running it is about 18 or so amps, not so much of a big deal, to start it, it pulls around 80 amps, I have tested this with 3 different amp meters to be sure. I used to have my fan on with the key, or the A/C always on. (This is Vegas and it is damn hot here)
Something is wrong w/ fan circuit. Should draw ~11 amps when engine running. Motor is going south or motor getting low volt. see Electric Motors and Check G101, that's only ground for fan motor.
I don't think there is much more that I can realistically sand. It's going to have to sit until I can find a way to sand blast it. Then it's ready to be painted!
Since I can't find anyone with a sandblaster, or anywhere reasonably priced, to sandblast these intake parts myself, I bought some paint stripper today & went to it.
As it was received, quite sometime ago from mattwa (I think)
Yuck.
I had started to hand sand it some time ago, didn't get far & figured this is not a realistic way to do this.
Everything prepared.
I started off lazy. As a result, this one came out poorly. We can see here that I didn't bother to clean it. At all. I figured the chemicals would eat through the dirt.
Applied, & we wait.
Half assed preparation leads to half assed results.
So before starting I washed the 2nd one.
Wow, much better.
Not 100%, but it's time to clean up for the day.
More to come.
[This message has been edited by no2pencil (edited 05-31-2014).]
I am not opposed to rebuilding an alternator but have taken several apart that have had blown field coils. If you examine the windings carefully you can sometimes see a broken wire. You should also be able to test with a VOM. Point is make sure the alternator field coil is good before you rebuild. This can save you some work.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "