Patient: My 1986 stock V6 4speed notchback.

So about a week ago, my daily driver started having problems shifting into first gear and reverse, over the course of the week the problem GRADUALLY got worse. I figured it was a shifter problem so I replaced the cables, put in all new bushings (Thanks Rodney) and realigned it. Now it shifts like a dream BUT:

when i went to do a test drive, I couldn't shift at all without grinding. The clutch felt very loose/spongey and wouldn't disengage. I bled the system to perfection and have perfect throw on the slave.
Still no luck.
Next I went and unbolted the slave to see if i could move the clutch arm by hand, and here's the weird part: it sort of flopped back and forth with hardly any effort and had no springing tension in either direction.

the only shop that works on Fieros in Farmington Hills, MI quoted me at $1300-$1500 for a new clutch and I'm wondering it it's just a broken fork? and if so, why would the problem have happened so gradually?

any advice or further questions are very welcomed!!!

-John

With the pushrod removed from contact with the clutch arm, the arm will move freely until it reaches the limits of travel. There's considerable free play.

First, I would check behind the rubber boots on both slave and master cylinder to see if there's fluid present. If there is, even with a good system bleed, it can pull air back in very quickly if the seals are leaking. Spongy feeling is usually a symptom of air in the system. Pressure plate problems can sometimes be felt as a strong pulsation in the clutch pedal when you put slight pressure on it.

Second, once you've determined that there are no leaks, do a gravity bleed on the system. Use V8Archie's method, or my method. Just don't use the pump, hold and bleed method. It breaks up the bubbles into small bubbles which are difficult to get out.

My method requires raising the left front wheel off the ground, filling the MC reservoir, opening the slave bleeder valve and let the fluid flow while keeping the MC reservoir topped off. Occasionally tap on the side of the slave to dislodge any air bubbles that might be trapped at the pushrod end. Takes only 1 person and you don't have to try to access the pushrod to depress it.

Third, use only DOT 3 or 4 fluid in the system to avoid damage to rubber parts.

Fourth, contact the Michigan Fiero Club. If you do need a clutch replacement, they may be able to direct you to someone more friendly than the source you quoted.
http://www.michiganfieroclub.com/

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 12-20-2013).]

I think it's one of those thing's that intill you crack it open an look its all just maybe's. If it is the fork It may have had a crack an slowly got so bad it failed. But id bet, its time for a new clutch.

Thanks fierofool, I think I have actually read about your gravity bleed/lifting the left side up method on a different thread.

Also thanks for your response georgie, but before this all started happening, my clutch was in excellent shape, no slippage whatsoever. that's why I'm leaning towards a mechanical problem versus a worn out clutch

Would any pictures/video help in the diagnosis? I can easily run out and take some pictures

-John

This is what happened to mine. Sounds like the same symptoms. Hope not.

Sad thing is I had a GM mechanic change the clutch on the side. He didn't clean anything up on the inside of the bell housing including the input shaft. T/O bearing [spring] finally popped from the fork about 4 months later. Did it myself [correctly] the second time around.

yep, sounds like either my T/O bearing or clutch fork is broken, I can qctually turn the clutch fork back and forth by hand with hardly any effort... no wonder the pedal sunk to the floor and didn't come back up....

if it is just the clutch fork and something like this happened:

how do i go about actually getting the new clutch fork in?

quote Originally posted by jschmidt95: no wonder the pedal sunk to the floor and didn't come back up....

There is a spring in the MC that should always push the pedal back up. If the clutch pedal is on the floor and won't come back up either you have a binding clutch pedal under dash (unlikely) or you have a bad MC.

If the clutch pedal is coming back up try this - Pump the clutch pedal a number of times rapidly. If the clutch then disengages your problem is hydraulic. If not then it is still and either or situation.

From the rest position of the slave cylinder does the slave push rod extend at least 1 1/8"? If so that should indicate your hydraulic system is working correctly.

quote I can qctually turn the clutch fork back and forth by hand with hardly any effort...

This is normal. If things are correct in the bellhousing what you are doing is just moving the throw out bearing away and to the clutch fingers in the bellhousing. When it hits the clutch fingers it will fill like it hits something solid. You will not be able to depress the clutch by turning on the clutch arm with your hand or even with a reasonable wrench. It will just feel like it has no give at all.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 01-16-2014).]

my 84 had a hub spring fall out and wedge itself between the disk and the flywheel.

My Fiero was acting the same way you describe when I first got it. Everyone told me my it needed a throw out bearing / new clutch etc. It ended up being the master and slave cylinder were shot. Buy Rodney's Master and slave cyl. Save yourself the headache right off the bat. The parts I got from the local auto parts store leaked and were useless. My $0.02

^^^ agree ^^^ current parts available at part stores is of low quality for fieros

i did find that when I pushed the pedal all the way to the floor i got 1.9 inches of movement from the slave, which hints at the hydraulics being good...

now about the above reply telling me that the clutch arm should feel loose... shouldn't I still be able to push on it and release the clutch?

quote Originally posted by jschmidt95: i did find that when I pushed the pedal all the way to the floor i got 1.9 inches of movement from the slave, which hints at the hydraulics being good...

a little over 1" is normal...are you sure you measured that right?

quote now about the above reply telling me that the clutch arm should feel loose... shouldn't I still be able to push on it and release the clutch?

yes...but it takes a lot of force without using the slave cylinder.

My dad was cleaning out the car Friday and noticed that the master cylinder was slowly dripping fluid inside the car. I poked around the seal and it gushed brake fluid lol. So I think it's safe to say that the hydraulics were my problem all along
I ordered a new master and slave from Rodney along with his one man slave bleeder tool. has anyone used this tool and knows how effective it is? maybe any suggestions? Also what was the stock slave bracket made of? mine looks like a heavy gauge flat stainless steel that had been bent into shape and painted a weird metallic purple... I'm thinking not stock....

you might want to check the clutch pedal as well i had the same problem 84-86 the clutch pedals are made of alum mine was twisted i found a used one from a 87 and its fixed

Every Fiero GURU should know that 90% of the Fiero clutch problems originate with the clutch slave cylinder
every time I come back to tech, the prominence of the clutch slave in Fiero shift problems has been forgotten?? WHY??
THE ATHEIST & FORIEGN CAR LOVERS HATE ME HERE & I COULD BE BANNED AT ANY TIME
always replace the stock slave single seal piston with rodney double seal piston
every Fiero in the world still running ,needs the Rodney Dickman double seal piston..
there are alternatives ,but Rodney has the best slave repair kit
the single seal piston is responsible for the destruction of AT LEAST ten thousand Fiero gear boxes
if you need to run the single seal piston for a few more days , use V8 archie bleeding method
also forcing the slave pushrod back into the slave is great for forcing air out
only the worst pitted slave cylinder can not be saved by a quick hone job & install Rodney dual seal piston.

GOD, GUNS, GUTS & FIERO MADE AMERICA THE GREATEST COUNTRY THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN.

quote Originally posted by jschmidt95: My dad was cleaning out the car Friday and noticed that the master cylinder was slowly dripping fluid inside the car. I poked around the seal and it gushed brake fluid lol. So I think it's safe to say that the hydraulics were my problem all along I ordered a new master and slave from Rodney along with his one man slave bleeder tool. has anyone used this tool and knows how effective it is? maybe any suggestions? Also what was the stock slave bracket made of? mine looks like a heavy gauge flat stainless steel that had been bent into shape and painted a weird metallic purple... I'm thinking not stock....

I used it on my install. Bled it according to the recommendations in the ogres cave and have put 7k miles on them with no issues since Aug of last year. I drive it minimum of 55 miles a day with many shifts. LOVE Rodney's master and slave cylinder!!

well, I got it fixed!!!!
replaced the master and slave with Rodney's and bled the system perfectly. I found that the one man bleeder tool wasn't working after an hour (i had a lot of air in the system) so i did a gravity bleed while cleaning the interior up. so now it works great! I'm really surprised how it was the hydraulic system this whole time.

I have noticed now that the clutch will fully disengage within the first three inches, which is much better than having to push it all the way to the floor!

Thanks for all your help and suggestions. Sorry it ended up being such a simple fix!

John