I am planning on driving my Fiero this winter. I go to school in Worcester MA so we get many feet of snow every year. I am getting some snow tires and wheels but I also want to protect my car from the salt. I have removed the inner rubber protectors in the rear and I will be replacing those. I may add something similar to the front as well to really keep all the crap in the wheel wells.

I am going to rubberize anything prone to salt on the underside, 3M sells some decent rubberized undercoating.

I also have some sweet Fiero mud flaps I am going to put back on my car.

Now there are a few things I want to do that are probably unconventional.

I want to use some metal mesh to cover the underside of the cradle and hopeful cover this will a washable filter type material. I do not want to prevent air from cooling the engine bay but I want to trap all the salt that would otherwise get sucked up into the engine bay. I am not sure exactly how I want to do this yet so I am open to suggestions.

Another idea I have for this is to just put a sheet of aluminum to cover the whole bottom, but put two big openings in it in front of and behind the engine. My exhaust is very not stock and would not be in the way of either opening, and I could put a "roof" over the openings so not direct water gets in. I could also use taught rubber sheet for this.

I also want to put something on top of the engine vents to stop water from melting on the wires and belts and what not and freezing. Maybe some aluminum sheet that is standing off the vents a few inches that will allow the heat to escape but stop snowfall from entering the engine bay. Again, just a preliminary idea so open to suggestions.

I have adjustable coilovers in the rear so I am going to raise the rear height, and I have lowering springs up front (my car is an 85 by the way). I might buy a cylinder of delrin or similar from mcmaster and chuck it on the lathe and turn out a 1-1.5" spacer that would fit over the cone that centers the spring, and the rubber bushing would sit below that, and the spring below that.

My Fiero is no show car with poor paint and an ok body, but pretty much every mechanical element is new or modified. I do not mind driving in the winter because the exterior already looks crappy, but do not want to damage everything mechanical with salt.

I have polyurethane bushings and they all have grease fittings so I will make sure to grease those very well to protect them from the salt.

For the amount you'll spend getting it ready, you could probably just buy a winter beater....just a thought...

I agree with the undercoating, but I'm thinking any kind of solid or mesh plating under the cradle would be a bad idea. Bad for ventilation (even with a couple of openings), it would also eventually end up trapping moisture and salt up where you most want to get rid of it. Mesh would definitely trap salty slush up against the engine. Perhaps others have done it and been successful...I look forward to seeing what others say.

If you want to protect the chassis, find a shop that will spray a waxy corrosion inhibitor. Look for a private shop. Talk to them and tell them that you want the frame sprayed. Remove the wheel wells when you take it in, so they can get the rustprone areas. Don't try to "protect" the engine. That is a waste of material and will only cause more issues. Salt spray will get everywhere. Wash the car weekly.

And for anyone who has a Getrag 5-spd and drives in freezing weather... read the following.

Temperature dropped - Getrag select cable frozen in place

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The salt spray cloud that envelopes vehicles will penetrate seams & crevices from all angles due to the capillary action and airflow. Applying a rubber coating may well promote corrosion by retaining the wet salt solution that will inevitably get under it.

An under spray that soaks into the existing rust & penetrates the seams & crevices seems a preferable alternative.

Some theorize that parking outside is preferable as well so the wind can dry the salt. It's less harmful when it's dry.

I live in Southern Ontario; sometimes we get more salt than snow! I've had an '84SE since new & it's still a daily driver. The only reason it has survived 363,000 kilometers (225,000 miles) & should last many more) is it stays in the barn when the roads are wet & salty.

The engine bay has been getting very salty and it is starting to rust my exhaust after only a few days of salty driving. I bet leaving just the front area of the engine bay open (like where the starter is) is really all I need, I doubt air really enters anywhere else as it has nowhere to go (vents are at front of bay). The air passing through the front of the engine and out the vents will create a semi vaccuum removing the hot air from the rest of the engine bay. I could make a wall to prevent slush from entering and staying along with drain holes in whatever I cover the bottom with (not a mesh in this case).

I could probably do all of this for around 100 dollars (not including snow tires and rims)

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: The engine bay has been getting very salty and it is starting to rust my exhaust after only a few days of salty driving. I bet leaving just the front area of the engine bay open (like where the starter is) is really all I need, I doubt air really enters anywhere else as it has nowhere to go (vents are at front of bay). The air passing through the front of the engine and out the vents will create a semi vaccuum removing the hot air from the rest of the engine bay. I could make a wall to prevent slush from entering and staying along with drain holes in whatever I cover the bottom with (not a mesh in this case). I could probably do all of this for around 100 dollars (not including snow tires and rims)

Again, you would be wasting your money. It isn't the slush that is the problem (well, unless it cakes up and causes mechanical issues). Drive down the road when it is just wet.... notice how the water is everywhere? Same thing with salt, as it is dissolved in water and when the water evaporates, it leaves behind the salt. Save your money for winter tires and car washes.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: If you want to protect the chassis, find a shop that will spray a waxy corrosion inhibitor. Look for a private shop. Talk to them and tell them that you want the frame sprayed. Remove the wheel wells when you take it in, so they can get the rustprone areas. Don't try to "protect" the engine. That is a waste of material and will only cause more issues. Salt spray will get everywhere. Wash the car weekly.

I agree, you can also spray it yourself with CorrosionX or similar.
http://www.buycorrosionx.co...1n46w67lj8173ti9p12r
http://www.buycorrosionx.co...dshow/cxhd90104.html


I wouldnt use rubberized undercoating unless there is literally zero rust currently. It will trap rust under it and it will grow faster.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/...19279#specifications

I plan on getting some of this to make the inner splash guards. I will probably not cover the bottom of the engine bay if you guys think it is going to get soaked anyways but I will make up my mind on that later.

Any suggestions for what material I should use for the front spacers? I would like to pick something that will not be very brittle at low temperatures.

Also I have braided stainless brake hoses. Is there any way I can effectively protect them? Or should I leave them alone and hose them down periodically to keep them clean. I don't want the salt to get into the braid and wear away at them. I was thinking I might be able to use a heat shrink tubing as that would probably do a good job sealing and not letting any moisture in. My hoses are made by Russell and the braid is not protected.

I will look into a local shop that could do a waxy coating.

I am definitely going to do something about the engine vents letting in so much weather

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: http://www.homedepot.com/p/...19279#specifications I plan on getting some of this to make the inner splash guards. Also I have braided stainless brake hoses. Is there any way I can effectively protect them? Or should I leave them alone and hose them down periodically to keep them clean. I don't want the salt to get into the braid and wear away at them. I was thinking I might be able to use a heat shrink tubing as that would probably do a good job sealing and not letting any moisture in. My hoses are made by Russell and the braid is not protected.

Make sure you dont let that flexible plastic near the exhaust, we'll have a fiero flaming on the side of the road.
Put CorrosionX on the hoses. Youd have to unhook them to heat shrink tube them, also the salt would then get in anyway and couldnt get out.
Or if you are going to a place to have them spray the frame have them hit the hoses too.

I am going to unhook the hoses to paint my calipers anyways, do you really think it would be less than watertight with shrink tubing?

Hard to say, depends on how the ends are, would help for one season, but after that probably cut it off and wash them. Maybe layers of plasti- dip on the ends to seal them up would help.

I'm not sure you could get tubing that would fit over the ends and still shrink tight?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-10-2013).]

I definately could but I like what I have been reading about corrosionx after doing a little research, and because the steel braid is exposed it should stick nicely to that and fill in all the cracks. I am looking at Mcmaster part# 8702K429 to machine some 1.5" spacers out of for the front, it is ultra high molecular weight poly ethelene and really strong stuff, same stuff they use in knee and hip replacements... So similar compressive loading. Temp range is -20 to 200 so that should be fine, I really doubt I will be driving around if it is -20 out.

Does anyone know the OD of the cone in the front suspension at the very top? The taper would be nice as well if anyone has the time!

Also the shower liner will not be going near the exhaust really. Is there another cheaper source of recycled rubber sheeting I could use?

What about coating the belly of the car with bed liner stuff like Rhino Linings or Line-X?

What about treating the belly with POR-15?

If you were making a Fiero dune buggy, what would you use since you could expect scrapes along the floor pans?

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: What about coating the belly of the car with bed liner stuff like Rhino Linings or Line-X? What about treating the belly with POR-15? If you were making a Fiero dune buggy, what would you use since you could expect scrapes along the floor pans? Jonathan

The floor boards are usually not the first things to rust... it is the rear rails and cradle. I wouldn't use line-x on anything that has parts that need to be disassembled. Also, I wouldn't bother with cans of coating. I would take it somewhere and have it done with good equipment, so they can get into the odd areas with their extensions.

I drove all my cars all year round, including winters. Id say just undercoat the bottom as best you can and check your antifreeze for proper temp. I also suggest turning on your headlites to raise the covers, then unplugging the motors till spring. New wiper blades and windshield washer fluid. Add a bag of sand in the spare tire well for front turning traction.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: DONT block off the bottom of the engine bay or the top vents. Your engine bay and even the engine will overheat. Air has to flow thru to keep temp down. The engine is going to get wet no matter what you do. It comes in around the deck lid opening and especially at the rear window anyway.

yup, this will only cause more problems.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I drove all my cars all year round, including winters. Id say just undercoat the bottom as best you can and check your antifreeze for proper temp. I also suggest turning on your headlites to raise the covers, then unplugging the motors till spring. New wiper blades and windshield washer fluid. Add a bag of sand in the spare tire well for front turning traction.

Yea I was planning on leaving the headlights up and I already did all of those other things, but I am not using bags of sand, just going to get some snow tires, bags of sand doesn't really help anything except when you are moving from a stop.

The sand in the front lets the front wheels steer on the snow. Fiero is light in the front anyway. Just to prove it to a guy in a parking lot once, I got up to speed and spun the steering wheel back and forth lock to lock with no effect on the car at all. Just kept going dead straight. It wont have any effect on the back end as far as starting or stopping.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: The sand in the front lets the front wheels steer on the snow. Fiero is light in the front anyway. Just to prove it to a guy in a parking lot once, I got up to speed and spun the steering wheel back and forth lock to lock with no effect on the car at all. Just kept going dead straight. It wont have any effect on the back end as far as starting or stopping.

100% agreed. Also, don't get wide winter tires. Get tall narrow tires. Don't mud/snow tires either. Get real winter tires.

+1 on just undercoating as best you can. If you use Rustoleum Rusty metal primer, regular primer, and then paint it seems to actually prevent rust. If you just clean, scrape, and paint every year or so it should last another thirty years.

Also +1 on don't block off the engine cooling. It's near zero here and the temp gauge climbs in heavy traffic just like it does in the summer. Cars can overheat in the winter due to the radiator getting plugged with snow and ice.

Last but not least, don't worry too much about this or the car or any other distractions. If and when you graduate you can buy another Fiero, or a Corvette with an aluminum space frame.

EDIT: Sorry, you probably already knew how to drive in the snow... Haha
I drive mine all winter. I think I have all season tires, but I'm not positive. Throw a bag of sand on top of the spare tire to help keep traction over the front wheels while turning like others have said (REALLY RECOMMEND THIS!!!) It helps a ton when trying to turn and keep control of the vehicle. With the car being mid engine, there is very little weight on the front of the vehicle so the front will tend to plow instead of turning which is why you need to add the sand and watch your speed as you go into a turn. Then you just need to remember it's rear wheel drive and to not give it much gas in the corners unless you want to slide. Oh and practice how to control the slides (turn into them). Start slowing down way before you think you will need to. It's very easy to lock up the tires in slippery conditions.

I leave my headlight motors plugged in because I usually end up brushing all the snow off of my car so that I can see anyways. Plus I love having working pop up lights! :P They don't freeze up unless it either gets warm enough to melt all the snow and refreeze it, or it rains/sleets and freezes. If that happens open the hood and push the doors open from the inside. If it rains/sleets/snow melts and you leave your headlights up, they will have a layer of Ice on them until it gets hot enough to melt it off which could affect light output. You also don't need to worry about snow covering up your headlights if you leave them plugged in. This will be my fourth winter of driving my fiero and I haven't had a single problem with the headlights. Even when I had a hood vent with no screen which would allow snow/water to get to the motors easier.
(Note: I mentioned having a headlight problem in another thread which was when I first purchased the car and it was because the connections were dirty.)

[This message has been edited by Big Paul (edited 12-12-2013).]

Paint/coating under car might help...
Box sections of frame, cradle, etc. can rust out from inside. You need right tools to coat these areas.

Carefully grease the exposed treads on bolts to remove for easy service later...
Cradle, Control arms, and others.
Why? You want alignment later? Expect trouble when treads are seal by undercoating.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

quote Originally posted by theogre: Paint/coating under car might help... Box sections of frame, cradle, etc. can rust out from inside. You need right tools to coat these areas. Carefully grease the exposed treads on bolts to remove for easy service later... Cradle, Control arms, and others. Why? You want alignment later? Expect trouble when treads are seal by undercoating.

This is why I don't recommend a rubberized undercoating. The stuff on my HHR is waxy/liquid and is easily wiped off with solvent, if needed. Rubberized undercoating (in a can) can/will flake off over time. It is a temp. solution.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: This is why I don't recommend a rubberized undercoating. The stuff on my HHR is waxy/liquid and is easily wiped off with solvent, if needed. Rubberized undercoating (in a can) can/will flake off over time. It is a temp. solution.

I bet it would be a good treatment for under the carpet. No wear there to rub it off.

Jonathan

One additional bit of advice I can give you is to make sure that you don't spray undercoating on the undersides of the SMC panels (decklid, upper rear quarters, hood, and headlight covers). The solvents in many undercoatings eventually soak through the SMC and cause tiny bubbles under the paint. It takes several years for this to happen, but once it does, there's no curing it. You can sand, fill, and repaint all you like, the problem just keeps coming back. A little overspray here and there isn't going to cause it, but some shops just like to coat anything and everything (metal or not) to make it look like a good job was done.

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: I bet it would be a good treatment for under the carpet. No wear there to rub it off. Jonathan

Protecting from what?

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: I am planning on driving my Fiero this winter. I go to school in Worcester MA so we get many feet of snow every year. I am getting some snow tires....

I think that "getting some snow tires" will prove to be your single best expenditure for winterizing your Fiero, given your mention of getting "many feet of snow every year".


Anywhere near that much snow will make it apparent that even so-called "all-season tires" could be more accurately called, "rolling misnomers".


Because no one has mentioned it yet, just remember that counterintuitive as it may sound to some, you'll get better traction in snow with narrower winter tires, rather than wider ones.

You've further mentioned:

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: I also want to protect my car from the salt.

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: My exhaust is very not stock....

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: ...starting to rust my exhaust after only a few days of salty driving.

If your Fiero's exhaust is not stock, I'm guessing it's not stainless steel either, but some cheapo steel that is easier to fabricate than is stainless steel. Short of going back to stainless steel or numerous under-chassis flushes at car washes, I can't think of anything more to suggest, other than a related lesson I learned the hard way about aftermarket catalytic converters:

Years ago, I needed a new catalytic converter, so I bought a comparatively cheapo cat, rather than Rodney Dickman's more expensive catalytic converter. However, the pipes just outside the cheapo cat completely rusted through because while the cat itself was stainless steel, the very short pipes connecting it to the remainder of the car's exhaust system were not.

Made the wiser as a result of that unfortunate experience, I'd recommend avoiding the "false economy" of buying a cheapo cat as I did, and just getting Rodney's catalytic converter instead (which is all stainless steel), something which in hindsight I probably should have bought in the first place.

In 2007, I put Rodney Dickman's catalytic converter on my car, and installation was a snap. Also, Rodney's is a COMPLETELY stainless, relatively unrestrictive catalytic converter. Even the very short PIPES on his catalytic converter, which connect it to the remainder of the exhaust system, are stainless (unlike the cheapo cat I once bought that completely rusted through rather quickly right at its non-stainless pipes). After seven salt-laden Wisconsin winters, Rodney Dickman's catalytic converter is still on my Fiero, as is my custom stainless steel exhaust, and its ceramic-coated headers (which probably is over 10 years old) --- each of which still has no rust holes.


Good luck to you with your winterizing project!

I live in a snow belt. I can tell you 100lbs of something in the front storage compartment is a must.

Snow tires on at least the drive wheels is a must.

Nothing stops salt penetration better than oil. I use Rustcheck no drip, but I have had good luck with standard non-detergent 30w motor oil and a spray gun too.

If you are coating the metal you need to do it in dry warm weather. If you are spraying oil, it just needs to be dry.

If you are coating the metal, spray oil afterward because it will penetrate the seams your coating won't get.

Hope this helps.

BTW I can also say the 4.9 is more fun than the 2.8 in the snow

Arn

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Protecting from what?

Water and mud tracked in on shoes that might seep through the carpet and attack the sheet metal.

Jonathan

Good idea but water is probably already in there and removing the carpets even temporarily is at least unpleasant. The guy who did the hybrid Fiero said the carpets weighed about thirty pounds. Someone else said the floor is very uneven and the car loud without them.

Water held by carpets and insulation is probably the number one cause of rust through on the Fiero. Partly this is probably because they're so low. Floods happen more often than you might think. If you park on the street there is a pretty good chance water has gotten high enough to get the carpets wet at some point. Once in there it's not likely to dry on it's own.

I believe one reason the battery trays and frame rails rust is the insulation in that area. I'm removing mine, patching with aluminum, painting with Rustoleum, and then with undercoating/rubberizing to minimize the sound the insulation was probably meant to deaden.

quote Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9: Floods happen more often than you might think. If you park on the street there is a pretty good chance water has gotten high enough to get the carpets wet at some point.

I would bet that more Fieros caught on fire (GM claims 260 in a 1988 press release) than have been flooded by water in any street.
Water leaks from doors, windows, sunroofs & the floor hole covers are more likely sources of wet carpets.

[This message has been edited by David Hambleton (edited 12-13-2013).]

quote Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9: ..Partly this is probably because they're so low. Floods happen more often than you might think. If you park on the street there is a pretty good chance water has gotten high enough to get the carpets wet at some point...

If you have frequent floods to this level, you should be buying a boat...not a Fiero!

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: This is why I don't recommend a rubberized undercoating. The stuff on my HHR is waxy/liquid and is easily wiped off with solvent, if needed. Rubberized undercoating (in a can) can/will flake off over time. It is a temp. solution.

What you have on your HHR is not rubberized undercoating. Its a professional oil/wax coating. Rubberized undercoating (the real one) dries like a hard rubber coating. You can even paint over it. I use it all the time on rustout repairs. When its dry, its like using dip. Its runny like tar till it dries hard, usually overnite. It only comes off if you sprayed it over an unprepped area just like paint. Ill even spray it into door bottoms and quarter panels till it runs out on paper on the floor so I know seams are all sealed.

Spraying it on the floor after proper prep, under the carpet will keep water and snow from soaking thru the carpet and pad and rusting the floor.

When I had my 88 I had the bottom sprayed with rustproofing. Also I attacked the few rust spots that would appear with a spray(duplicolor makes it) that turns rust into black metal, then use a spray can of rustproof. I did this every summer. Like Jack said WASH the car. I did it a minimum of once a week. I went to the quarter car wash and would wash the top and bottom then rinse with the spray wax. I did this top and bottom. Your exhaust is going to get rusty just from use regardless if you just drove it in the summer.

My exhaust is mild steel because I made it myself, it has a custom Y pipe that goes the other direction over the transmission into some 2.5 inch tubing that snakes next to the trunk and around to a stainless Borla XR-1 racing muffler and out the back in the normal location. It adds a bunch to the Butt dyno from the stock exhaust and gets heat away from the wires on the firewall. Haven't had any problems with it. It is fully painted with header coating and it was doing great until the salt which is causing the paint to chip. I am going to repaint it with many layers over my winter break. But this is the main reason I wanted to block off the bottom (which I am not going to do)

I will put some weight up front because I forgot that snow tires are trying to grip the road, so more weight helps them reach the road. And I am getting some narrow tires (195-185s)

It snowed 6 inches today and it is 6*F. My car is simplified a lot, no emissions anything, no charcoal canister, no interior trim, no carpets (but I have rugs/mats to absorb moisture from shoes), no cold start injector, no control, and no AC. But my car starts perfectly every time with no CSI which I was happy about, this is the first winter I am driving it.

I drove it in the snow today with my regular tires, it was really fun to slide around every corner. I pretty much had too or the front tires would plow (summer tires) but if I kicked the back out the front tires would find grip. Me and my friend went to a parking of of an abandoned walmart or something and set up a course around all the islands, it was really fun and surprisingly easy to control even with summer tires. Very hard to stop though!

I am leaving my headlights up because I don't want to deal with manually cranking them in the cold snow if they don't feel like going up.

The no carpet is not that loud, but it is loud when water or anything else hits the bottom. It is way lighter and easier to clean up because it can't trap and hold water anymore. The floor is POR-15ed and so is the whole cradle as well as rubber coated. There is no exposed rust on the frame rails either. I am going to spray everything with CorrosionX which pretty much seems like the best thing ever. The block and heads are also painted.