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Got myself a Fiero by JD1984
Started on: 12-06-2013 05:04 PM
Replies: 14 (485 views)
Last post by: JD1984 on 12-11-2013 11:02 AM
JD1984
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Report this Post12-06-2013 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JD1984Click Here to Email JD1984Send a Private Message to JD1984Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey, Dutch 29yo here. Got myself a 86' GT this week. It needs a few fixes, so i got sum questions.

First, the folding headlights dont work. The relays came with the car, but they looked and smelled burned. If you put them in, the motor makes a tiny rotation and thats it. You can raise and lower them by hand.
So i'm thinking i need sum new relays?

Second, the rpm counter seems off, like 1000/1500 rpm to high.

The watertemp gauge doenst come above 110F. Heater works and gets really hot, fan works to. Broken thermostat or sensor?

And are there any Pontiac to ISO plugs for the radio. The 8-tracks thats in it, is dead.

Any idea guys?
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mrfiero
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Report this Post12-06-2013 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JD1984:

Hey, Dutch 29yo here. Got myself a 86' GT this week. It needs a few fixes, so i got sum questions.

First, the folding headlights dont work. The relays came with the car, but they looked and smelled burned. If you put them in, the motor makes a tiny rotation and thats it. You can raise and lower them by hand.
So i'm thinking i need sum new relays?


Maybe. I'd try that first, but the motors may need to be rebuilt.

 
quote


Second, the rpm counter seems off, like 1000/1500 rpm to high.


Not sure on this one.....does it have the correct tach? I think if you use a 4-cyl. tach in a V-6 it'll be off.....a picture would solve that.

 
quote


The watertemp gauge doenst come above 110F. Heater works and gets really hot, fan works to. Broken thermostat or sensor?


Have you checked to see if it has a thermostat installed. People like to remove them (for some reason) and that could cause it to run colder than normal. It could also be bad sensors or even a bad gauge.

 
quote


And are there any Pontiac to ISO plugs for the radio. The 8-tracks thats in it, is dead.

Any idea guys?


I'm assuming by "8-track" you mean the tape deck (not the same thing). Yes.....there are adapter harnesses to use newer OEM radios with CD players or aftermarket decks. I don't have any links for you, but I'm sure someone else will chime in.


Welcome to the club and I hope you get your GT fixed and are able to enjoy it!
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post12-06-2013 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You likely need a new tach filter. They are attached to the coil.

No Fiero came with an 8 track.

the '110' is actually celius

Arn
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mrfiero
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Report this Post12-06-2013 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Arns85GT:

the '110' is actually celius

Arn


Hmmm......he did say 110* F, so I assumed it was Fahrenheit. 110* C would be 230* F, so he would be complaining about running hot not cold, right?

Anyway, if the heater works great and the fan works then it is probably a sensor or the gauge (but check for the thermostat first!).

[This message has been edited by mrfiero (edited 12-06-2013).]

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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post12-06-2013 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Those headlight symptoms are not familiar, it might just be relays. Google Michigan Fiero Club pdf file on headlight function.

+1 on wrong engine for tach. Search for threads on recalibrating tach.

Your temp gauge needle is probably out of position. There is a thread on how to take it off and put it right. Use search function above.

Why not just get a new radio?

[This message has been edited by 85 SE VIN 9 (edited 12-06-2013).]

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Neils88
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Report this Post12-06-2013 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9:
...+1 on wrong engine for tach....


Wrong engine? So clearly he should correct his tach by dropping in a 3800sc or a 4.9L...
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fierofool
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Report this Post12-06-2013 09:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The headlight relays have a smelly black die-electric compound to keep out water.

The temp gauge should sit at the 100 F mark when you first turn on the ignition, but do not start the engine. If it doesn't, the needle has probably slipped.

High idle can be caused by a vacuum leak. If you get a Check Engine light after driving it for a few minutes at highway speeds, I'd look at the EGR tube. Otherwise, it might be one of the vacuum lines attached to the manifold or throttle body.

If you want to upgrade your radio to the newer style Pontiac radios, you can find plug and play harnesses at www.replacementradios.com Look through their menu for harnesses and click on GM, then select the harness that converts for the 20 pin +89 year model radios. They even have the radios. A little pricey compared to what you can get at your local parts yard or here on the forum.
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JD1984
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Report this Post12-07-2013 05:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JD1984Click Here to Email JD1984Send a Private Message to JD1984Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tnx for all the replies people!

Here's a pic of my car, and the gauge cluster:


This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

So i tested both the relays that came with the car on both headlights. No response what so ever. The lights are in the upright position, but not turned on. So i presume, as soon as i put the relays in, they should go down?
Is there a way to manualy power the motor for a short time, just to see if they work?

As for the watertemp, the needle prolly has slipped, as you can see in the pic, the needle is all the way in the corner.
How do i check if the thermostat is installed, not familliar with these cars, mostly work on Alfa's.
The car idles great, but the rpm counter is just to high, so gonna try and find out how to recalibrate that. Don't get any check engine light, and the car runs great.

There is definitly an 8-track in my car, the slot is way to big to fit cassetes.
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mrfiero
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Report this Post12-07-2013 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is a an isolation relay for the headlights near the drivers side motor......it's bolted to the chassis. Try replacing it and see if that helps.

Your picture shows the correct tach for a V6, so you are good there. When you say it reads high, does it sound like it's idling at a normal speed (800-1000RPM), but reads higher or that the engine itself is "racing" at a higher than normal speed? What RPM's does it show when you are driving it at 60 MPH? Idle?

To check the thermostat pop the decklid and remove the engine grille covering the battery. You will see a round silver cap on the passenger side of the engine.....that is where the thermostat is. Make sure the engine is cold and unscrew the cap. You will know if there is a thermostat or not right away. I would replace it myself, just so you know you have a good one. Make sure you have a new one before removing the old one though......sometimes the seal sticks or stretches and you will never get it back in (might even ben the heck out of it removing it ). You might also get a new cap.....sometimes they are hard to get off too and get damaged getting it off (I've used a pipe wrench on more than on occasion to get the cap off....it screws up the cap).

Removing the gauge cluster is not that hard.....some T-15 torx-head screws, 7mm head screws and a couple of 10mm head screws (plus some wiring plugs) and it's off. Once out of the car it's easy to disassemble it to get at the gauges and then you can remove the needle and reposition it as needed.....just be careful with it so you don't bend or break anything.

I'd like to see a picture of your radio. It's very interesting that someone installed an 8-track player......very odd choice. I don't think I have ever seen that in a Fiero before. It's definitely not something that came stock.
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JD1984
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Report this Post12-07-2013 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JD1984Click Here to Email JD1984Send a Private Message to JD1984Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The rpm gauge reads 2500 when idle, but it isnt that high. Maybe around 1200. Gonna check for leaks when my back stops hurting.
Also gonna check for a thermostat. Will make a picture of the radio tommorow, it look original. But the power button is broken.
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Fierotregg
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Report this Post12-07-2013 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierotreggClick Here to Email FierotreggSend a Private Message to FierotreggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Watch the gas gauge also, Fieros are notorious for being off.
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JD1984
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Report this Post12-08-2013 04:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JD1984Click Here to Email JD1984Send a Private Message to JD1984Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That one seems to be working okay. I put 20L of fuel in it yesterday, and it went from a quarter to 3 quarter. Still can't check anything on the car, my back is killing me.
And it's my birtday today, so not alot of time. I will make a picture of the radio.
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JD1984
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Report this Post12-11-2013 05:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JD1984Click Here to Email JD1984Send a Private Message to JD1984Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got sum medication, so i had a chance to work on the car a little bit. Took one headlight assembly completly out. It seems to work perfect manually. Then i went on and measured some wires.



This is the connector going into the headlight relay. The thick red wire has 12 volt on it at all time. The 2 smaller wires in the center switch from 0 to 12v, depending on if the lights are turned on/off.
If there is power on this connector, i can assume that the rest of the electrical circuit is ok, and only both the relays have died?

In the next pic, i think it's missing a "fusible link"?


Here is the isolation relay, that seems to be working allright. Although i don't hear it clicking when i use the headlight switch.


And the promised picture of the radio. I think you guys are rights, it's cassete, the big buttons had me thinking otherwise.


I hope someone can confirm that i need some new headlight relays, found a guy in Holland who has 2.
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fierofool
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Report this Post12-11-2013 08:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To access the thermostat, you don't need to remove the grill over the battery. The thermostat housing cap is readily accessible by just opening the engine cover. I use an oil filter wrench to remove the thermostat housing cap. A small band-type filter wrench will easily remove and install the cap without damaging it. The cap is about the same diameter as the Fiero oil filter. Don't remove the cap on the radiator. You'll create more problems than you'll solve.

The headlights can be operated manually by inserting a ball point pen or small phillips screwdriver into one of the little dimples in the top of the headlight motor knob. I'd suggest that you leave the single blue wire going to the motor disconnected except when you're trying to diagnose problems. At all times, keep your hands and fingers out of the headlight mechanism.

Headlight relays will not click loud enough that you can hear them. I don't believe they have contacts in them that would open and close. They have power to one side or the other at all times and the power circuit is broken by the limiter switch in the headlight motor.

That isolation relay bolted to the inside of the fender well, near the left headlight should have a part number of 10032620. The headlight motor relays mounted on the headlight assembly have a different number or numbers since there were several part numbers for these. The isolation and motor relays will plug into the other's harness, but will not function. Be sure you have the correct relays in the correct location. Try to stay with stock wiring and avoid cutting and splicing to make things work.

The radio is a stock lower end cassette unit. You can replace it with later model Pontiac radios with cassette or CD. Plug and play harnesses are available for installing the 89 and later 20 pin radios. www.replacementradios.com is a good place to find both the radio and harness.

It appears your temp gauge needle has slipped due to years of pegging to the right at startup. Once you've installed a new thermostat, you can get an idea of where it begins to overheat by letting the car sit and idle. With the front lid open, watch for the cooling fan to kick on. At that time, note the position of the temp gauge. It will probably be about 1/4 gauge when that happens. This will give you a reference point. You can tackle the gauge needle position at a later time when you're more familiar with Fieros.

Gas gauge: Fill the car by setting the locking handle on the lowest flow. Don't force feed the fuel after the automatic cutoff. Reset the trip odometer each time you fill up, and I would recommend filling up each time until you get an idea of the accuracy of the gauge. Drive the car until you're at about 140 miles on the tank, then fill up again. Four or five tanks of fuel should give you an idea of the MPG you're getting. The 86 has a 10 gallon tank, with only about 8 of that being usable. So, on the low end, if you're getting 20MPG, you should be able to make about 160 miles before you run out of fuel. Many Fieros with the original tank sending unit run out at about 1/8 tank. It would be best to never drop below 1/4, just for safety and also to keep enough fuel in the tank to cool the fuel pump.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 12-11-2013).]

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JD1984
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Report this Post12-11-2013 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JD1984Click Here to Email JD1984Send a Private Message to JD1984Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tnx for the great advice, but you technically didn't answer my question.

If there is power going to the relays, can i assume they are faulty, and the rest of the headlight circuit is ok?
And can you further explain why i should not connect that blue wire?


Another edit, got 1 motor working again. One of the brushes inside the motor had come off. My neighbour, who is great with electric stuff, solderd on a new one, and now its working great.
The other motor is somehow dead. It was missing both of the brushes, and the stops inside the beige gear were gone. Filled that gear up with hot glue, new brushed were soldered, but the motor only want to turn really slowly.

Mailing around for a used motor now, a new one will cost me around €200+ / $275+.

[This message has been edited by JD1984 (edited 12-12-2013).]

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