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Blue smoke out the exhaust by babyboy761
Started on: 11-29-2013 01:56 PM
Replies: 23 (531 views)
Last post by: Justinbart on 12-05-2013 04:35 PM
babyboy761
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Report this Post11-29-2013 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for babyboy761Send a Private Message to babyboy761Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi! I just completed my turbo swap. After a mountain of problems with the turbo. I just broke down and got a new one. 2004 65k 3800 II sc that ran fine before the turbo install. i have a filter in my oil cap. Witch I'm not sure it's enough ventilation. I say that because my 02 sensor reading are low when I have the vented cap on. When I remove the cap it goes back to normal up and down scanning. Things I have changed are 1.8 rockers, 60lb injectors and F body intake. Driving in to work i turned on to a off ramp and a cloud of smoke out the back. I pulled over and nothing was there. So I drove on to the shop. Turning in the shop with another cloud of smoke. So im burning oil somewhere. I guess I will add a vacuum line from the valve cover.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post11-29-2013 03:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My guess is that your rings sealed fine with the regular engine. Adding a turbo is putting more pressure in the cylinders that the rings cant handle. Did you rebuild the engine before you put on the turbo ? You cant take an average mile engine and just throw a turbo or supercharger on without expecting problems. I had no problems at all with the turbo on my 3.1.....after I put about $5000 in the engine.
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sleevePAPA
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Report this Post11-29-2013 03:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
remove the cap completely or reinstall the factory closed cap? What computer controls are you using to run the engine?
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babyboy761
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Report this Post11-29-2013 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for babyboy761Send a Private Message to babyboy761Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The engine was already supercharged. I just removed it and put a turbo on it. Like a lot of orders here have done. I have not been over 6psi with the turbo. So I don't think it is my rings. If I put the oil cap back on it my 02 reading are in two digit number. With oil cap off 02 numbers go up and it runs better. Vacuum from the intake was no help. So I will put a bigger hole in th oil cap. After I check my pcv valve.
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Report this Post11-29-2013 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bad rings or cylinders, valve seals or vent system are about the only things that will cause blowby. Is there any oil in the bottom of the air filter canister ? Is the oil seal good in the turbo ? Blue smoke means oil is getting somewhere it shouldnt.
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Neils88
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Report this Post11-29-2013 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wet/dry compression test will tell you if there's ring or valve guide problems. At very least it will give you some peace of mind as to their condition.
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babyboy761
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Report this Post11-29-2013 09:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for babyboy761Send a Private Message to babyboy761Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK! It's like this. Car has never had any problems before I installed the turbo. It has about 10 miles on it. Nothing over 6lb. I pulled my pcv and had oil around it. But not a lot.
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Neils88
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Report this Post11-29-2013 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by babyboy761:

OK! It's like this. Car has never had any problems before I installed the turbo. It has about 10 miles on it. Nothing over 6lb. I pulled my pcv and had oil around it. But not a lot.


Likely a ventilation problem...however, a compression test will confirm that it's not caused by blow-by. Basic troubleshooting, rather than shots in the dark. Compression testers are cheap, or can be borrowed. The other choice is to chase the symptoms instead of the cause...

Could also be an internal oil leakage on the turbo...but I'd sooner step through the troubleshooting procedures than jumping to the expensive options...

[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 11-29-2013).]

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babyboy761
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Report this Post11-29-2013 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for babyboy761Send a Private Message to babyboy761Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok I will do a compression test tomorrow. Just know that the car was fine with the SC on it.
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cmechmann
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Report this Post11-29-2013 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just to rule it out.
If the turbo impeller is accessable. Look at the impeller to see if it is wet. May want to gently wipe a qtip between 2 fins and see if it is damp. Don't get the cotton stuck in there.
Least it wouldn't cost you to look.

[This message has been edited by cmechmann (edited 11-29-2013).]

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babyboy761
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Report this Post11-30-2013 04:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for babyboy761Send a Private Message to babyboy761Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok I will do a compression test tomorrow. Just know that the car was fine with the SC on it.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post11-30-2013 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Neils88:

Wet/dry compression test will tell you if there's ring or valve guide problems. At very least it will give you some peace of mind as to their condition.


Amazing how so few people, even techs now days do that to check just what a problem could be. even GM techs would rather start replacing parts to find a problem than just do a few simple test. they were just as guilty of this decades ago so I am not picking on the new generation of techs.

Steve

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and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 11-30-2013).]

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John DeHaan
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Report this Post11-30-2013 11:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for John DeHaanSend a Private Message to John DeHaanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
is your turbo drain tube large enough? Restricted?
Inadequate drainage will definitely cause smoking issues. As the oil pressure builds it will overpower the shaft seal, forcing oil into the turban .
Just a thought.
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sleevePAPA
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Report this Post11-30-2013 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mass-air engine controls????????
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Justinbart
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Report this Post11-30-2013 03:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First thing I would check would be the turbo drain.

Did you do a boost leak check?

I'm not familiar with the camaro intake but is there any crank case passages you were supposed to block. When I first did my swap I forgot to plug a port in the throttle body causing me to boost the crank case. The pressure would push oil from the turbo drain back into the turbo and smoke really bad.

Is there a build thread with pictures and stuff?

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
10.91@133.1

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 11-30-2013).]

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babyboy761
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Report this Post12-01-2013 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for babyboy761Send a Private Message to babyboy761Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oil return line is a 1" That was my problem I was having with the other turbo. I had a 10 AN on it but that was to small. It was backing up and push oil out my exhaust. Just don't understand why it runs better with the oil cap off. I'll ask one of the other guys with the same intake. Thanks for the suggestions.
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Report this Post12-01-2013 02:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by babyboy761:

Oil return line is a 1" That was my problem I was having with the other turbo. I had a 10 AN on it but that was to small. It was backing up and push oil out my exhaust. Just don't understand why it runs better with the oil cap off. I'll ask one of the other guys with the same intake. Thanks for the suggestions.


If you have a mass air flow sensor to meter air into the engine, removing the oil cap will cause unmetered airflow. Unless the PCV system is completely plugged?

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Report this Post12-03-2013 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for babyboy761Send a Private Message to babyboy761Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
(Justinbart)  I'm not familiar with the camaro intake but is there any crank case passages you were supposed to block. When I first did my swap I forgot to plug a port in the throttle body causing me to boost the crank case. The pressure would push oil from the turbo drain back into the turbo and smoke really bad. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^After checking with Ryan about the setup. He did confirm. Thanks for the help!
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djlamp14
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Report this Post12-03-2013 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for djlamp14Click Here to Email djlamp14Send a Private Message to djlamp14Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

My guess is that your rings sealed fine with the regular engine. Adding a turbo is putting more pressure in the cylinders that the rings cant handle. Did you rebuild the engine before you put on the turbo ? You cant take an average mile engine and just throw a turbo or supercharger on without expecting problems. I had no problems at all with the turbo on my 3.1.....after I put about $5000 in the engine.


Poor info^. 3800's will take pretty much anything you throw at them. Rebuilding these motors is pretty much a waste of time. A stock bottom end will hold 600+whp all day. They have held 200whp more on occasion. The motor is probably just fine. I would be concerned with the oil drain. That valve cover issue is because of PCV issues. You are pressurizing the crank case. Install a breather on the rear valve cover for now and see if the issues go away. I could easily walk you through how to run a correctly made catch can setup on a supercharged car but with the turbo that complicates things a bit. I would suggest you get in touch with paul from PRJ performance. He can help you with your issues with ease.

------------------
11.8@115mph 1/4 mile 1999 Regal GSX being demodded for swap into a 87 Fiero GT.
11 sec pass>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQT4X2eBlR8

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post12-04-2013 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So your saying 3800 is so good, that you can take a stock one with 50K on it, throw on a supercharger or turbo to boost it to 600 hp and have no problems at all ? I dont buy it. Seems I see a lot of people with 3800 problems that are pretty much stock. I do pretty much its the engine choice for a swap these days.. Personally I like 4.3s.(I think thats what was in my Astro). Never an engine issue except for one bad injector one time.
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Report this Post12-04-2013 07:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for djlamp14Click Here to Email djlamp14Send a Private Message to djlamp14Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes. I boosted my regal at 147k miles. Its been that way since 2009. I'm making somewhere just under 400whp and it ran 11.8's @115mph. It currently has 167-170k miles. I know countless 3800 members who have turboed/SC cars with MUCH higher miles. One that really sticks out is a member on Clubgp. He turbo'ed his GP at 242k miles. It makes ~430whp. As long as a 3800 is maintained well it will keep chugging for a very long time until you run it lean/too much timing and burn a hole in a piston or throw a rod. Bearings happen sometimes but that is usually from other issues.

I'm sorry if that's too hard for you to believe but its a fact. Ask around on the 3800 forums. You'll find I'm quite right.
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Report this Post12-04-2013 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Most likely going to get flamed, but anyway.
Doesn't make sense a decent running, already boosted engine, burning oil after installing a turbo unless there is an issue with the intake/pcv configuration or with the turbo configuration. No waste gate?
Any engine could take a dive. However unless something really screwed up with your earlier turbo attempts(overboosted and blew hole in piston) it should not have damaged the engine.
If something did screw up it should have been obvious.
They even took stock block 3.8s and ran a few at Indy. This of course with a lot of crank, piston and head work.
Rodger I've had a few 4.3 with over 300,000. most went out because the head gaskets rotted away after the blocks started rusting and eating away at the expansion plugs. would have love to have seen a 291/4.9 version, 388 in V6.
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Report this Post12-05-2013 12:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

So your saying 3800 is so good, that you can take a stock one with 50K on it, throw on a supercharger or turbo to boost it to 600 hp and have no problems at all ? I dont buy it. Seems I see a lot of people with 3800 problems that are pretty much stock. I do pretty much its the engine choice for a swap these days.. Personally I like 4.3s.(I think thats what was in my Astro). Never an engine issue except for one bad injector one time.


Correct...It has only been done a 100 times over...I mean the 3800 isnt a Nascar built engine like u run but it is a pretty tough engine...
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Justinbart
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Report this Post12-05-2013 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I heard the nascar engine builders took apart 3800s and reverse engineered them so they could make better engines.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
10.91@133.1

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