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how do you get a good seal on the 2.8 exhaust maniolds? by AL87
Started on: 11-10-2013 05:37 PM
Replies: 31 (691 views)
Last post by: Merlinhaggard on 12-27-2013 09:31 PM
AL87
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Report this Post11-10-2013 05:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I see that my headers are leaking again, I replaced the gaskets a few months ago when I swapped another trans in.

I put in a stud kit and everything is nice and tight... Im thinking the gasket quality is to blame.

Ive found... a victor reinz brand, a fel pro brand. and another felpro brand but its a racing gasket and twice as thick as the other two.

what is everybody using? anyway can I put some sort of sealer on the outside of the gasket to help get a better seal?
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Report this Post11-10-2013 05:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rcmClick Here to Email rcmSend a Private Message to rcmEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't know if it is available but I always used copper gaskets on my headers on all my hot rods.
They conform to unevenness of the flange.
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post11-10-2013 06:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your header flanges are suspect. What thickness are they? The lighter ones can warp and that is the most likely scenario.

The good gaskets are a must and you definitely do not want that front heat shield. It is a recipe for leaks.

If you get some surgical tubing, you can stick one end in your ear and probe with the other end while the engine is running. That will tell you exactly where your leak is.

Copper isn't a bad idea but it is normally used for boosted applications. The thick Felpro's should hold it. If not, some of the flame proof RTV will help as well.

Arn
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Dodgerunner
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Report this Post11-10-2013 07:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DodgerunnerClick Here to visit Dodgerunner's HomePageClick Here to Email DodgerunnerSend a Private Message to DodgerunnerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If your flanges are ok you might try these. They are what I use all the time now.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...030204-2-024865.html
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AL87
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Report this Post11-11-2013 12:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
they are the thicker flanged stock headers. the flanges were surfaced, so the header will sit flush like it is supposed to.

I took all the heat shielding off, exept for on the alternator, and I wrapped the wiring.

the victor gasket was just too thin I guess, its already blown out, and I can see where.
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Blacktree
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Report this Post11-11-2013 12:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The standard FelPro gaskets are working fine for me.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post11-11-2013 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Something tells me you didn't torque them down correctly, they shouldn't leak as long as they were tightened properly in the first place if the headers were surfaced correctly.

Steve

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AL87
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Report this Post11-11-2013 01:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the victor reinz gaskets were like 6 bucks for the pair. and weren't as thick as I think they should have been.
I guess I got what I paid for, lol.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/198...em2ec9e7b38e&vxp=mtr

everything was torqued to spec in proper sequence. its just the gaskets couldn't take it. so I'll have to get better ones I suppose.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pac...em5af6472413&vxp=mtr
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Report this Post11-11-2013 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ive never had problems with Felpro myself, even on race cars. If I remember, dont stock Fieros bolt straight on with NO gasket. I see that on a lot of newer cars too.
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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post11-11-2013 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
If I remember, dont stock Fieros bolt straight on with NO gasket.


No, OE included a gasket that was of better quality than both of those linked to, it contained a metal combustion ring at each port like what is seen on head gaskets/
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post11-11-2013 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK, didnt remember.
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Report this Post11-11-2013 05:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The best gaskets I had also had the metal rings around the exhaust hole. They kind of looked like crinkle aluminum foil.

Arn
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AL87
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Report this Post11-11-2013 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:


No, OE included a gasket that was of better quality than both of those linked to, it contained a metal combustion ring at each port like what is seen on head gaskets/


I remember seeing the felpros having said ring****
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Report this Post11-11-2013 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by AL87:


I remember seeing the felpros having said ring****


They do......I just replaced a cracked front manifold on my '88 GT this weekend and used a Fel-Pro gasket that had a metal ring around the port hole. So far so good......no leaks at all. I almost forgot what the Fiero exhaust note sounded like without a leaky manifold!
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Report this Post11-11-2013 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpoonSend a Private Message to SpoonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I use the VW beetle gaskets. No problems in 4 years or more.

Spoon

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Report this Post11-12-2013 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What torque value are you guys using? Different value for bolts vs. studs, conventional gasket vs. VW gasket?

Jonathan
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AL87
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Report this Post11-12-2013 10:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:

What torque value are you guys using? Different value for bolts vs. studs, conventional gasket vs. VW gasket?

Jonathan


I turn the stud in tight, until it bottoms out in the hole, and then I torque the nut to spec.

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84fiero123
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Report this Post11-12-2013 07:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by AL87:


I turn the stud in tight, until it bottoms out in the hole, and then I torque the nut to spec.


Click torque wrench or bar? and when if it is a click was the last time you had it checked? and do you always turn it back down to 0 when you are done, if not it is most likely off.

Steve
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Report this Post11-12-2013 07:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Spoon:

I use the VW beetle gaskets. No problems in 4 years or more.

Spoon




Which Beetle? Which motor?
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Report this Post11-12-2013 11:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpoonSend a Private Message to SpoonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

1966 Type 1 Volkswagen

http://www.rockauto.com/cat...reinfo.php?pk=477576

http://www.rockauto.com/cat...g=31&partnum=0396098

Spoon

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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut

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Report this Post11-13-2013 12:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post11-13-2013 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by AL87:


I turn the stud in tight, until it bottoms out in the hole, and then I torque the nut to spec.


Is that 18 ft-lbs? Is there a specific pattern to tighten? I guess it wouldn't matter with individual gaskets like the VW ones, would it?

Jonathan

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Report this Post11-13-2013 01:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Is that 18 ft-lbs? Is there a specific pattern to tighten? I guess it wouldn't matter with individual gaskets like the VW ones, would it?

Factory spec is 18 ft-lb. The service manual doesn't seem to have a torque sequence. Although it would be wise to start at the center, and work your way out. The sequence I use is to start with the center port, then do the port closest to that, and finally the remaining port. It seems to work OK for me. But as always, YMMV.

I can't comment on the VW gaskets, because I haven't used them. But I would start with the factory specs (and the torque sequence I mentioned), and work from there.
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Report this Post11-13-2013 05:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thought I would add a pic of a VW Beetle air cooled 1600 exhaust gasket on a 2.8 manifold. Everything lines up perfectly.



Jonathan
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Report this Post11-13-2013 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TKSend a Private Message to TKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have yet to have any problem with the Victor or Fel-Pro gaskets on several engines over the years but I might try the VW's some time.
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AL87
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Report this Post12-25-2013 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:

Thought I would add a pic of a VW Beetle air cooled 1600 exhaust gasket on a 2.8 manifold. Everything lines up perfectly.



Jonathan


Okay, so I crunched some numbers. its actually cheaper for me to buy the vw gaskets over the felpro, and the extremely cheap victor reinz ones ARE NOT WORTH IT.

I feel they are the best, so far and so good. I had to remove the alternator and ac compressor (with aluminum bracket) to get to the manifolds.
luckily I had studs (not). everything so far, so good. lol. I hear a slight ticking from somewhere, but I have yet to find any sooty exhaust leaking from the manifolds.
probably a lifter (cold start)
have a metallic composite crush marerial sandwiched in between two metal sheets with the crimps on the inlet with a slight rise (sealing ring) on both sides.

such a great seal. 10/10 I would recommend this to anyone, the work however is another story... XD
they
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Report this Post12-25-2013 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mitchjl22:


x2


X3 VW gaskets
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Report this Post12-25-2013 08:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They leaked on both sides? Doesnt make sense. Double the gaskets up. 2 on each side.. Ols school..
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Report this Post12-25-2013 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88FieroGT TTopsClick Here to Email 88FieroGT TTopsSend a Private Message to 88FieroGT TTopsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had to go back and retighten the nuts after the engine did a heat and cool cycle--seemed to loosen some of them up-but its ok now

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Report this Post12-26-2013 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for uhlanstanClick Here to Email uhlanstanSend a Private Message to uhlanstanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
over time the exhaust manifolds loose thier alignment,, the thicker gaskets compensate for this
I place sand paper on a level surface & oscilate/rotate the manifold a few times then check to see if
I need to sand them into flat level alignment. I did this as part of my efficient porting process
often a concrete floor laid by a professional is good enough,,my kitchen counter has some strange wear??hmmmm
check with a straight edge,like a construction level,manifold & floor
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AL87
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Report this Post12-27-2013 03:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by uhlanstan:

over time the exhaust manifolds loose thier alignment,, the thicker gaskets compensate for this
I place sand paper on a level surface & oscilate/rotate the manifold a few times then check to see if
I need to sand them into flat level alignment. I did this as part of my efficient porting process
often a concrete floor laid by a professional is good enough,,my kitchen counter has some strange wear??hmmmm
check with a straight edge,like a construction level,manifold & floor


I remember getting the guy at my machine shop to do this for me on his huge belt sander for when he surfaces heads.

It really helps to keep the exhaust manifolds from pulling un-evenly on the exhaust bolts/studs after they are installed.
because sometimes the header's will "warp" from the heat and the flanges don't all end up sitting level on a flat surface.
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Report this Post12-27-2013 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you dont feel like milling your manifolds, run 2 gasket sets on each side. Ive done it many times.
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