This is my first post. I posted this somewhere else, too. I'm just trying to get as much info as possible. I hope that was OK.
Anyway, everything seems on track for me to pick up my first Fiero in a week. I'm pretty excited about it.
Anyways, it's an automatic 85 with the 2.5 engine. I want a manual transmission and more power. I've been reading as much as I can about swap options and this is what I came up with:
transmission: F23 from a 00-02 Cavalier. I found a good write-up about how to do this on this forum.
Here are the pros and cons of engines I've considered. I'm looking for something with low end grunt that would get me into the low 12s if possible. I have a MIG welder and have designed engine mounts, etc. before.
1) L67 supercharged
Pro: easy to modify, rock-solid reliability. Good documentation for the swap. cons: not many. It's hard to find a low mileage one, though
2) L67 turbo
pro: see above. Turbo can also produce more boost = higher horsepower. I have L36 Camaro heads and intake already. cons: I'd be designing a turbo system from scratch. This might be fun, though. Turbos take longer to spool up than superchargers and I have a turbo car already.
3) Northstar
pro: good numbers out of the box and it's aluminum. cons: has a bad reputation for reliability. I haven't been able to find much info on how to do this swap, although it's been done. West Coast Fieros says on their webpage that this is a difficult swap. Very little aftermarket.
4) LS4.
pro: This would be great. An aluminum LS engine. Lots of cheap aftermarket goodies. cons: Unless I missed something I would be designing my own system to get the transmission mounted up. I've never done that before. Is there a kit?
Am I missing something here? I'm leaning towards option 1.
Anyways, if there is a book or something that walks you through this, that would be great. I've been able to find information but not in one place.
Avoid the Northstar...nothing against it, but it's a tough swap for the power. LS4 is great, but it is expensive and a lot of custom fabrication is required. For simplicity, go with the 3800sc...you can always pull the supercharger and go turbo later. If you want an easy V8 swap...can't beat the 4.9L Caddy...but that won't get you 12's without adding a good turbo
L67 is probably the best bang for the buck. (This coming from a 4.9 owner.) Since your car is already automatic, I would be tempted to keep the 4T65E tranny that comes with the L67. (I love to shift for myself. Even went to the trouble to swap a manual tranny into my 4.9 car. But I'd still try the automatic that comes with the 3800.) The F23 is becoming popular, but I don't know enough about it to talk intelligently about it. I'll leave that to the others.
------------------ Raydar 88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550 Praise the Lowered!
Thanks. I think it's settled that I'll go l67 supercharged. It's more straightforward. I just wanted to do my research before I committed to something.
This is probably a loaded question, but where do you guys get your engines? I've read that Morad is good, but they're expensive. Junkyards are cheaper, but I also realize that sometimes getting cheap things costs more when you have to un**** it later.
Just a heads up since you don't have your location listed. If you're in California nix the stick idea with the 3800SC. You have to get special registrations to do that and they only give out like 500 of those a year. They are usually gone rather quickly and not very cheap to get. In Califoria, without one of those special registrations you can only swap in engines newere than your cars model year and only in configurations they were offered in when sold new in a vehicle. Since the 3800SC was not mated to a stick in any vehicle it was sold in, you can't use a stick with it (unless you get lucky and spend the money for one of those special registrations). If you don't live in California, disregard this but check your local emission laws if you have emissions where you live. I don't know if any other states have the same type of restriction but it wouldn't suprise me if some do.
Thanks. I think it's settled that I'll go l67 supercharged. It's more straightforward. I just wanted to do my research before I committed to something.
This is probably a loaded question, but where do you guys get your engines? I've read that Morad is good, but they're expensive. Junkyards are cheaper, but I also realize that sometimes getting cheap things costs more when you have to un**** it later.
What's your experience?
Hardest part is making the commitment to a particular engine. I'm excited to be doing a 4.9L...but I think you'll love the power and options available by doing the 3800sc. You'll appreciate not having to deal with an overly complex swap to start with.
Junkyards are good...but make sure you get everything you need...getting a used running car may be a better option if you can find one with the engine you are looking for at a good price. Don't forget to get the engine, accessories and most importantly, the wiring harness with the computer! If you buy a complete running car, then you can keep picking at it until you're done, then part out the rest...hopefully make some of the money back.
Originally posted by dhen: Thanks for the info, but I'm in San Antonio, TX. No worries there.
I really don't see how transmission choice would affect air quality, but that's bureaucracy for you.
Because an engine that came with a manual has a different program than one that came with an automatic. If you simply swap the trans and use the auto program, it could result in worse pollution when not reprogrammed correctly to deal with the change. Of course, without reprogramming, you'd be lucky to even get it running remotely well at all.
It's easier for for them to just say you can't do it, than deal with all the checking to make sure it's done properly. Much easier/cheaper to train people to say "no" than to check for proper reprogramming and such.
Because an engine that came with a manual has a different program than one that came with an automatic. If you simply swap the trans and use the auto program, it could result in worse pollution when not reprogrammed correctly to deal with the change. Of course, without reprogramming, you'd be lucky to even get it running remotely well at all.
It's easier for for them to just say you can't do it, than deal with all the checking to make sure it's done properly. Much easier/cheaper to train people to say "no" than to check for proper reprogramming and such.
I don't understand why the programming even needs to be checked. if it blow's clean, it should roll, no questions asked.
------------------ we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...
The emissions station equipment doesn't come close to the same degree of precision as the original powertrain certification test. Outside of test conditions, the automatic is predictable, while the manual isn't. If they can't control it, they forbid it... that's unfortunately the way people in power think. Nevermind the fact that the number of people each year who want to do these modifications is so tiny relative to the total auto market as to be completely negligible.
I don't understand why the programming even needs to be checked. if it blow's clean, it should roll, no questions asked.
I was forced to reprogram my ECM,BCM,BrakeCM, Anti-lockCM, and Radio to pass the engine swap certification in CA (because I swapped all of these components into the Fiero and they all needed to have the same VIN number encoded into the systems so they would communicate with each other properly) . The drivetrain was from out of State "Federal car" and the emissions tolerance tables in CA cars are stricter. Basically the SES light turns on sooner than "federal cars" when the cat starts to burn out (post cat readings). When I was running the Fed program I had no codes but after the reflash I had an SES light for a dead cat. This cat is fine in Fed cars but CA standards it can not pass. The kicker is that what comes out of the tail pipe is still clean with this "dead cat" but the emissions people are happy that I spent $200 at the GM dealer to reflash the system to CA standards.
Congratulations on your fiero purchase. And welcome to pff. I'm looking into doing the same thing with my fiero. I'm doing a 3.8 na swap to mines I'm looking for a 3.8 mount kit for my swap. Wcf have a lot of information on swaps but to me some of there hardwere is overpriced. But if u need some info this is the place to be for the fiero. Goodluck.
