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Generation 1 headlights by Ducati Jones
Started on: 10-29-2013 10:14 AM
Replies: 11 (234 views)
Last post by: fierofool on 11-01-2013 08:39 AM
Ducati Jones
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Report this Post10-29-2013 10:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ducati JonesClick Here to Email Ducati JonesSend a Private Message to Ducati JonesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I need a little education on the Gen 1 headlight motors. I have a 1986 SE w/ 2.8 and auto trans. I've owned the car about 1 1/2 years. Right after I bought it the passenger side headlight had a gear failure. I sent the headlight motor off for a rebuild with metal gears. Everything has been find up until last week. The headlight pops up but wont retract. If I pop the hood and press down on the knob and reset the contacts in will behave and retract. Over the weekend I disconnected power to the motor and removed the inspection cover over the contacts and everything thing looked good. No burned spots and the contacts move freely when I push the knob down or lift it up. I read thru some older post and there was some discussion concerning the material the bumpers are made from. As I didn't do the rebuild myself I dont know what was used. From my understanding it is these bumpers acting againt the bracket on the drive gear that moves another part that activated the contacts. Is this correct? Am I heading down the right path? Thanks for any help you can give me!
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steve308
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Report this Post10-29-2013 11:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You will chase Gen 1 headlight problems for as long as the car has gen 1 motors. I also had mine rebuilt a number of times (and I very seldom drive after dark) and they would work one day then not the next and then they would fix themselves. I also changed the three modules and the headlight switch with new not junkyard items. Same problems still occurred. I even had (and still have) a box of spare motors that I would just swap in and out. (They seemed to repair themselves in the box!) All connections were cleaned polished and sealed. Nothing cured the Gen 1 ghost. I switched to the gen 2 harness and motors (junkyard find). Problem solved. I suggest you visit the FAQ section and read up on the two great articles posted. One is for the harness swap and Dodge runner also has a "how to" on converting the Gen 1 harness to Gen 2. Good Luck
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Ducati Jones
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Report this Post10-29-2013 11:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ducati JonesClick Here to Email Ducati JonesSend a Private Message to Ducati JonesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I saw some posts concerning the Gen 2 swap but right now the budget for such a swap is not there. I guess my ghost is just being active. Well it is the week of Halloween. Where are the ghoust busters when you need them?
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fierofool
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Report this Post10-29-2013 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you know if the motors were rebuilt with The Fiero Store metal gears or Rodney Dickman's metal gears. The Fiero Store metal gears don't use bump stops. Pull the cover off the limiter switches again and look far to the back to see if one of the brushes has broken off the spring arm. Your symptom is indicative of this.
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Ducati Jones
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Report this Post10-29-2013 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Ducati JonesClick Here to Email Ducati JonesSend a Private Message to Ducati JonesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok thanks for the reply. I think I will pull the whole headlight assembly out this weekend and check out the gears and the contact arms.
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fierofool
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Report this Post10-29-2013 05:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the motor isn't activating, then it won't be the gear that's the problem. Neither will you be able to see the gear without totally disassembling the motor. A word of caution when removing and installing the limiter switch set. Be careful not to catch the edge of the brushes on the grooves in the motor. That's what tends to break them off.
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Ducati Jones
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Report this Post10-30-2013 07:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ducati JonesClick Here to Email Ducati JonesSend a Private Message to Ducati JonesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the tip! The headlight will go down if I push on the knob. This morning it went down on it's own. So I popped them back up to see if it would again return on it's own but no luck. So it seems that something is not moving properly inside and not bumping the contacts. Like I said earlier. I'm pulling the unit this weekend and taking a peek inside.
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katatak
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Report this Post10-30-2013 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There are 2 "fingers" on the motor shaft separated by a spring. One finger is for the lower limit switch and the other finger is for the upper limit switch. Could be that when the motor raises the bucket, one of the "fingers" is not making contact with the limit switch to "reverse" direction - when you push down on the knob, it moves the finger and trips the switch. I've found a few motors where the springs were different - in tension and length. If I remember correctly, through a lot of experimenting, the spring on the left in the below pic is far superior to the spring on the right - the spring goes between the 2 "fingers".

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fierofool
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Report this Post10-31-2013 09:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the fingers didn't trip the points, voltage would still be applied to the motor and it would tick or overheat, or maybe both. You are correct about the spring. A weaker spring can fail to trip the points and shut the power, but again, if that happened, the motor would overheat or tick. If the motor has recently been taken apart, it could also be that the rubber weather seal that fits into the top of the case halves didn't get positioned properly. If it's outside the case, sitting underneath the knob, then the motor will often fail to activate, or it will tick.
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katatak
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Report this Post10-31-2013 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

If the fingers didn't trip the points, voltage would still be applied to the motor and it would tick or overheat, or maybe both. You are correct about the spring. A weaker spring can fail to trip the points and shut the power, but again, if that happened, the motor would overheat or tick. If the motor has recently been taken apart, it could also be that the rubber weather seal that fits into the top of the case halves didn't get positioned properly. If it's outside the case, sitting underneath the knob, then the motor will often fail to activate, or it will tick.


Could also be that the armature is not adjusted correctly - the adjustment screw on the bottom was messed with and / or the ball bearing is missing - allowing too much movement or slop in the armature.
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carguy8t8
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Report this Post10-31-2013 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carguy8t8Click Here to Email carguy8t8Send a Private Message to carguy8t8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by katatak:

There are 2 "fingers" on the motor shaft separated by a spring. One finger is for the lower limit switch and the other finger is for the upper limit switch. Could be that when the motor raises the bucket, one of the "fingers" is not making contact with the limit switch to "reverse" direction - when you push down on the knob, it moves the finger and trips the switch. I've found a few motors where the springs were different - in tension and length. If I remember correctly, through a lot of experimenting, the spring on the left in the below pic is far superior to the spring on the right - the spring goes between the 2 "fingers".



FYI The spring on the right is out of a Firebird headlight motor and is much softer than the Fiero spring on the left. The Fiero requires a stiffer spring to hold up against the resistance of the spring loaded headlight door. Firebird's do not have this resistance thus the softer spring. If the Firebird spring is used in a Fiero then the limit switch could be activated early when opening.
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fierofool
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Report this Post11-01-2013 08:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by katatak:


Could also be that the armature is not adjusted correctly - the adjustment screw on the bottom was messed with and / or the ball bearing is missing - allowing too much movement or slop in the armature.


First generation motors don't have the screw or ball bearing. That's the generation two motors.
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