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4.9 Allante fuel rail inlet...? by HarryG
Started on: 10-20-2013 09:22 PM
Replies: 14 (568 views)
Last post by: V8 Formula on 04-24-2020 04:20 PM
HarryG
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Report this Post10-20-2013 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HarryGSend a Private Message to HarryGEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Apparently the engineers at Cadillac used a special inlet fitting for the Allante fuel rail. Every fuel rail I've seen is minus that fitting...

Has anyone found a replacement for that fitting or a work-around solution?
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Raydar
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Report this Post10-20-2013 11:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
IIRC, It's a cylinder shape with a hole in one side. Sealed with an O-ring, towards the top of the cylinder.
Above the O-ring groove, there's another groove. There's a V or Y shaped clamp that fits into that groove. A screw holds that clamp down.

My car is going to be "down" for a while, in a few days. Will some pics help?

------------------
Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

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HarryG
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Report this Post10-20-2013 11:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HarryGSend a Private Message to HarryGEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

...

My car is going to be "down" for a while, in a few days. Will some pics help?




Yes.
Eagerly awaited!!!

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Raydar
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Report this Post10-21-2013 01:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Okay.

If you don't hear from me by the middle of next week, shoot me a PM.
I'm probably doing a show on Sunday, so it will likely be after that.
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Raydar
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Report this Post11-10-2013 12:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here we go. Sorry for the delay.

Installed pic


Stainless(?) screws.


Inlet fitting.


The flat plate that is held down by the screws is sort of clipped into the top groove in the inlet fitting. The bottom groove has an O-ring.
The plate is free to rotate around the fitting. That allows the fitting to rotate to different positions.
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HarryG
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Report this Post11-10-2013 12:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HarryGSend a Private Message to HarryGEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Raydar,
Thanks for the pix!
Did you use the complete Allante fuel line or just the ends?
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Report this Post11-10-2013 08:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just the last few inches of the hardlines where they connect to the fuel rail assembly. I had a hose barb welded on to the inlet fitting, IIRC.
There's a company near me who makes up hydraulic lines and stuff. They have been very accommodating to my strange projects. For a price.

In the last pic, you can see the return line. It's about a 4" metal stub with the fuel line double-clamped. (The hose barb was added to the inlet side.)
It wouldn't seem to be the ideal method, but it's never let me down in almost ten years.

IIRC, the return line was a generic fitting.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 11-10-2013).]

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V8 Formula
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Report this Post04-20-2020 03:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for V8 FormulaSend a Private Message to V8 FormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wanted to thank Raydar for posting the pictures of the Allante fuel line connection. These parts are hard to come by these days and salvage yards have no idea what to look for without these very useful pics that you posted. I was able to find one by using your pics and texting it to a salvage yard. So, thanks!
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Raydar
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Report this Post04-20-2020 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by V8 Formula:

I wanted to thank Raydar for posting the pictures of the Allante fuel line connection. These parts are hard to come by these days and salvage yards have no idea what to look for without these very useful pics that you posted. I was able to find one by using your pics and texting it to a salvage yard. So, thanks!


I'm happy that they were able to help you.

These fittings are not exactly falling out of the sky, these days.
I hope that someone can come up with an alternative method of feeding the Allante rails. (Or even better... if a fitting like that already exists, in common usage, elsewhere.)
I know someone else who has a fitting that is a bit compromised. I'm sure he would welcome something.
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Will
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Report this Post04-21-2020 09:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
I'm happy that they were able to help you.

These fittings are not exactly falling out of the sky, these days.
I hope that someone can come up with an alternative method of feeding the Allante rails. (Or even better... if a fitting like that already exists, in common usage, elsewhere.)
I know someone else who has a fitting that is a bit compromised. I'm sure he would welcome something.


It would not be hard to take some stainless round bar and turn a replacement on a lathe. The replacement would just have 1/4" or 3/8" NPT (pipe) thead instead of GM's right angle connection. If you want to mail me the fitting, I can model it and make the drawings.
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Report this Post04-21-2020 03:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I did my Allante swap, I had purchased a custom fuel rail for it from someone. Of course I forget who. It was 10+ years ago...
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Raydar
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Report this Post04-22-2020 03:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
It would not be hard to take some stainless round bar and turn a replacement on a lathe. The replacement would just have 1/4" or 3/8" NPT (pipe) thead instead of GM's right angle connection. If you want to mail me the fitting, I can model it and make the drawings.


Thanks Will.
My fitting is fine. I was inquiring for someone else, who is doing an Allante intake setup.
I think he still has his inlet fitting, but he might be interested in having/making more. I'll forward him this thread.

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V8 Formula
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Report this Post04-23-2020 02:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for V8 FormulaSend a Private Message to V8 FormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but since all the Caddy guys are here I have a somewhat related question. I just bought an Allante 4.5 engine (that came with the fuel fitting thank goodness) but it has no wiring harness. I've built wiring harnesses a couple times on different swaps in the past so I'm good with wiring, but can I just go to my local salvage yard and get a 4.9 wiring harness and use that for the fuel injectors, distributor, alternator, sensors, computer, etc? I'm wondering if the connectors are mostly the same for similar years. Thanks.

Rick Stewart

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Raydar
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Report this Post04-23-2020 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My 4.9 was installed by the Fiero Factory, using a harness that they sourced. (Injection Technologies?)
When I installed my Allante intake, I had to extend the wires for the IAT sensor, and (I believe) the ISC motor. The pinout was "one for one". Nothing was crossed up. The wires were just too short. The Allante also does not use EGR, so all of that was just unplugged. You will also find another small connector that is unused - both on the 4.9 and the Allante, as installed in the Fiero. (I believe it is red in color. Possibly a power steering pressure switch. I believe those pins should be jumpered on the ECM, but don't hold me to it.)

The only "gotcha" I ran into was the TPS. IIRC, the 4.9 TB places the wiper on the center pin. The Allante TPS uses a different connector, similar to the stock Fiero V6, which must be spliced in. The wiper ended up being on one of the end pins. Not too difficult to figure out, once you realize what's going on. (The main symptom? My auto trans shifted at some of the strangest times.)

Obviously, this is not a direct answer to your question, but it's the best I've got. Long story short, the wiring is quite similar. (Sensors, injectors, etc.)

Keep in mind that if you are using the Allante automatic trans, it is a much different beast from the 4T60E. It's called an F7. It's kind of a half-step between the 4T60 and 4T60E.
Of course, if you are doing a manual, it will simplify your life greatly, in this regard. Just jumper (ground?) the appropriate pins, so that the PCM thinks it's in "drive".

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 04-23-2020).]

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V8 Formula
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Report this Post04-24-2020 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for V8 FormulaSend a Private Message to V8 FormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks, that helps a lot.

Mine's a Getrag so no worries about the transmission.

Thanks again, +1 for you.
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