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SES Fraud! by aFiero
Started on: 10-20-2013 05:34 PM
Replies: 10 (431 views)
Last post by: fierofool on 10-22-2013 04:47 PM
aFiero
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Report this Post10-20-2013 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aFieroSend a Private Message to aFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have an interesting case on my 2.8. I got it running around town and I noticed when I was shifting down to 2nd at 20ish MPH the SES light came on and off short intervals until I pushed the clutch in. I thought, okay time to pull some codes! But, the only code it gave was 12. What would be culprit? Wiring was my first thought.

Thanks for your chimes

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Chelo Fiero
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Report this Post10-20-2013 05:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Chelo FieroClick Here to visit Chelo Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Chelo FieroSend a Private Message to Chelo FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bad O2 sensor..
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Gall757
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Report this Post10-20-2013 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Some SES conditions do not set in the computer's memory because the ECM needs to see some problems for a length of time. 02 sensor is a likely suspect as is the EGR system.
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Report this Post10-21-2013 10:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Agreed on O2 sensor being the likely thing.

However, if your clutch is starting to get a bit slippy, it could be the VSS causing the code to pop up, as the engine speed and vehicle speed don't match up in the ECM. I have seen this on my own car before. You should be able to feel the slipping as you try to accelerate when the light is coming on though. If it's only happening during deceleration though, almost certainly the O2 sensor.
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aFiero
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Report this Post10-21-2013 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aFieroSend a Private Message to aFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The O2 sensor was replaced this year (ACDelco/Delphi) and the egr tube was also replaced this year (Rodney Dickman). But, I will check out the sensor and see what it tells me.

Thanks!

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Report this Post10-21-2013 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by aFiero:

The O2 sensor was replaced this year (ACDelco/Delphi) and the egr tube was also replaced this year (Rodney Dickman). But, I will check out the sensor and see what it tells me.

Thanks!



The O2 sensor could have gone bad if there are other issues with your car, such as the cat being bad. The sensor could get coated in carbon deposits plenty fast with the other problems that could cause the engine to run too rich, or cause restriction in the exhaust flow.
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aFiero
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Report this Post10-21-2013 10:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aFieroSend a Private Message to aFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


The O2 sensor could have gone bad if there are other issues with your car, such as the cat being bad. The sensor could get coated in carbon deposits plenty fast with the other problems that could cause the engine to run too rich, or cause restriction in the exhaust flow.


Okay! I'll pull the thing out.

Thanks for the input.

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84fiero123
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Report this Post10-21-2013 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by aFiero:


Okay! I'll pull the thing out.

Thanks for the input.



Check the wire connection at the O2 sensor and as far back as you can before pulling it, all it takes is a faulty wire or wire that is only working sometimes to do something like this. while your there in the wiring check anything else as far as wires, just one wire that is damaged to mess with that light it sounds more like a wire is your problem if it just an intermittent flash. check to make sure the connection is good, tight, and clean as well.

Steve

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fierofool
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Report this Post10-22-2013 10:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Agreed on O2 sensor being the likely thing.

However, if your clutch is starting to get a bit slippy, it could be the VSS causing the code to pop up, as the engine speed and vehicle speed don't match up in the ECM. I have seen this on my own car before. You should be able to feel the slipping as you try to accelerate when the light is coming on though. If it's only happening during deceleration though, almost certainly the O2 sensor.


I don't understand the theory of this. There are only two sensors of sorts in the transmission. Backup lights and VSS. If the higher rpm didn't match the VSS, wouldn't that cause all lower gears to pop the SES light on, say if you're running through a lot of curves in 3rd gear?
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dobey
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Report this Post10-22-2013 01:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:
I don't understand the theory of this. There are only two sensors of sorts in the transmission. Backup lights and VSS. If the higher rpm didn't match the VSS, wouldn't that cause all lower gears to pop the SES light on, say if you're running through a lot of curves in 3rd gear?


No. The backup light isn't a sensor, it's a switch. The VSS is the only sensor in the transmission, yes. But the TPS and MAP tell the ECM what the engine load is. VSS code can occur if the TPS and load readings don't match the VSS reading, and will only occur while the vehicle is moving.

I don't know the exact implementation in the ECM, but I have had the exact issue happen in my car, which does have a worn clutch that slips. The code is 24 if you do manage to get it to stick, and part of the diagnostic procedure for code 24 is "check the TPS" along with checking the VSS itself. One of the descriptions I found for the code, when I did get it (was several years ago), also clearly described it as VSS being out of acceptable range in relation to engine speed/load. It's only happened to me once or twice in the many years I've had the car, but it happened. I was only stating it for completeness as a place to look as the culprit, if the O2 is fine, and the issue happens on acceleration, rather than deceleration.
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fierofool
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Report this Post10-22-2013 04:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
dobey, I did recognize that the reverse light was a switch, but that it sensed that it had been placed into reverse, only. Doesn't send any info to the ECM. I wasn't sure how the VSS interacted with the ECM, but there must be what some refer to as a Look-Up-Table where several bits of input information have to be within certain ranges when compared to other input factors. Makes sense of what you said.
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