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2.8 question on valve cover bolts by AL87
Started on: 10-07-2013 01:57 PM
Replies: 19 (963 views)
Last post by: Blacktree on 10-31-2013 11:23 PM
AL87
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Report this Post10-07-2013 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the little washers on the valve cover bolts are pretty brittle after about 20 years, so I'm wondering what could be used as a replacement?

its just annoying to me that I rebuilt an engine, and it still leaks from the valve covers where the bolts go through.
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AL87
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Report this Post10-28-2013 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
no one has any idea?

Im thinking of replacing the old brittle washers with some neoprene ones.
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post10-28-2013 04:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the issue isn't the bolt washers, it is the gasket. Believe me. The gaskets are notorious. Buy new ones
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AL87
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Report this Post10-28-2013 08:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Arns85GT:

the issue isn't the bolt washers, it is the gasket. Believe me. The gaskets are notorious. Buy new ones


I have "new" ones on there, but I can tell where the oil is coming from, the original washers under the valve cover bolts are gone, theyre so brittle that they just fall apart if I mess with them.
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post10-28-2013 08:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I still say it is your gasket. Do you have the molded gasket that fits into the groove in the cover, or the flat S10 style gasket?

Those washers aren't meant to be oil tight. I think I have some spares in good shape in my shop if you get stuck

Arn
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AL87
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Report this Post10-28-2013 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had the engine out a few months ago when I swapped the trans, and I decided to pull the valve covers to adjust the valve lash.
they are the molded felpro blue gaskets. and I was just wondering what I could use as a replacement, they are leaking.
I just want a day where this thing doesn't leak... even if its just an oily film... I gotta powerwash the grime off monthly.
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zkhennings
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Report this Post10-29-2013 07:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is exactly why I am done with the 2.8 the gasket surfaces suck and so do all the gaskets made for it. No matter what I do this engine leaks from somewhere.
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post10-29-2013 07:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Get some RTV sealant and run a bead around the head surface and around each hole. Tighten it lightly and let is set over night before you torque them.

Arn
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mrfiero
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Report this Post10-30-2013 04:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have some good used factory valve cover bolts LMK if you want/need them.
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AL87
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Report this Post10-31-2013 09:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sigh... I made the surface flush, and IT DOESNT LEAK FROM THERE...

I have plenty of valve cover bolts too, I just wanted to know what material the original sealing washer was.
because for those of you that don't know, there are sealing washers that go with the valve cover bolts. which is where my engine is leaking from...
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post10-31-2013 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've had the heads off a 2.8 any number of times and the only washers I've seen on the both the 85 and 87 engines are the molded ones on the bolts. They do not seal. Please post a pic of what you are talking about

Arn
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Report this Post10-31-2013 01:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero84FreakClick Here to Email Fiero84FreakSend a Private Message to Fiero84FreakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm with Arns on this. Those are the type washers I've seen too and are what have been on all the L44s I've worked on. The washers ultimately will have nothing to do with the sealing property of the valve cover. The blue gasket is what does all the sealing, and especially around the actual bolts the gasket is setup so nothing can leak into that area. I've never even come across someone needing to replace the bolts or similar.

If you're getting leaks around there, then you potentially have improper torque settings on the valve cover bolts or there is a physical issue between the valve cover and the head. You also have to be SUPER INCREDIBLY careful when applying the torque settings - literally when I do V6 valve cover gaskets I go up like no more than two or three ft lbs around each bolt in increments. It takes all day to get everything torqued, but it makes sure that the blue gasket doesn't bulge unnecessarily out of the valve cover. Over torquing on just one bolt can squish the gasket past the lip on the valve cover and 'pop' the seal when it's seated.

I'm at 285,000 miles on a never-rebuilt L44 and am not leaking oil out of the valve covers - I'm leaking oil elsewhere, but sealing up a L44 2.8L completely can be like trying to reverse the Earth's rotation. It's a good thing the stock 2.8L is incredibly robust.
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Report this Post10-31-2013 02:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A blue felpro gasket with the ribs on it is the best one I have ever used on anything, shouldnt leak if torqued right.
I agree the next step is a skin of rtv on both sides of the gasket. Make sure the surface of the head and cover are dry and opil free when installed as well.
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fastblack
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Report this Post10-31-2013 02:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fastblackSend a Private Message to fastblackEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'd take the train...
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Blacktree
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Report this Post10-31-2013 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by AL87:

sigh... I made the surface flush, and IT DOESNT LEAK FROM THERE...

I have plenty of valve cover bolts too, I just wanted to know what material the original sealing washer was.
because for those of you that don't know, there are sealing washers that go with the valve cover bolts. which is where my engine is leaking from...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you got this all wrong.

The washers don't seal the holes. The gasket does. The valve cover gasket wraps around the bolt holes, to seal them. And the bolt holes are blind holes. They don't go into any oil passages or anything. So if there are leaks around the valve cover bolts, the gasket isn't sealing. Chances are you squished out the sealant before it cured. Or you over-tightened the bolts and deformed the gaskets. That ain't the engine's fault.

If you do it right, you won't even need any sealant, except where the intake meets the cylinder heads.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 10-31-2013).]

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Carrolles
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Report this Post10-31-2013 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CarrollesClick Here to Email CarrollesSend a Private Message to CarrollesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What you are calling washers are actually sleeves that keep you from crushing the gasket too much. When you torque the bolts you are actually clamping the bolt against the sleeve.
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imabuzzkill
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Report this Post10-31-2013 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for imabuzzkillSend a Private Message to imabuzzkillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No he's is talking about the washers on the bolts (they do not seal the holes, but they are there) Your talking about the crush limiters in the Felpro VC gasket.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post10-31-2013 06:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fastblack:

I'd take the train...



Hah, I forgot that joke!
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AL87
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Report this Post10-31-2013 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
okay, I had to take a valve cover off to get at what was said. everything looks pretty good, exept for the area where the bolts go through. I see what ya mean, theres hardly anything there to really seal... this is annoying... such a stupid design...
what is the torque spec on these bolts again? I must have not had them tight/loose enough...
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Blacktree
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Report this Post10-31-2013 11:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
According to the Haynes manual, the torque spec is 6 to 9 foot-pounds. So it's really easy to over-torque them.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 10-31-2013).]

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