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Poly Advice by eunospeed
Started on: 10-07-2013 09:03 AM
Replies: 11 (222 views)
Last post by: theogre on 10-08-2013 01:17 AM
eunospeed
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Report this Post10-07-2013 09:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eunospeedClick Here to Email eunospeedSend a Private Message to eunospeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Guys,

I'm getting ready to do new ball joints, tie-rod ends and struts on my Formula. The car has 28K miles on it and was wondering if the rubber bushings should be done too? I have been planning on upgrading to poly all along but the more I think about it the more I really dont' want to "dig" that deep. I had poly on my last Formula and loved it but I guess I'm getting lazy in my old age. So the real question is..... with only 28K miles would I really benefit from poly? I like a tight suspension, but lets face it doing poly will more than double the work.

JG
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Report this Post10-07-2013 09:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rubber degrades over time, regardless of how many miles the car has actually been driven. So your rubber bushings may need to be replaced anyway, and you might not know it.

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eunospeed
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Report this Post10-07-2013 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eunospeedClick Here to Email eunospeedSend a Private Message to eunospeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Noted....
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DimeMachine
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Report this Post10-07-2013 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DimeMachineSend a Private Message to DimeMachineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What he said is true but here is what i have found.
Top front upper a arm bushings - small and deteriorate - replace
Lower front - big rubber bushing - inspect, if they look good take a pry bar and see if they are reasonably tight which I suspect they will be. Leave as is.
Rear a arm bushings - large but under the torque of accel and brake - replace!

My 2 cents.

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84/87 NB, 3800SC, E-85, VS Cam, 2.8 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 1/4 mile -11.906 at 111.93mph

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eunospeed
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Report this Post10-07-2013 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eunospeedClick Here to Email eunospeedSend a Private Message to eunospeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good feedback!
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dobey
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Report this Post10-07-2013 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check the motor mount bushings, cradle mount bushings, etc… as well.

Or if you really prefer poly that much, then Just Do It. It might double the work you have to do now, but if you're already going to be in there, then it's worth it to do now, than it is to do it down the road piecemeal when things start failing. Just do everything now, and you'll just enjoy the car that much more when you get it back on the ground.
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DimeMachine
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Report this Post10-07-2013 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DimeMachineSend a Private Message to DimeMachineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Check the motor mount bushings, cradle mount bushings, etc… as well.

Or if you really prefer poly that much, then Just Do It. It might double the work you have to do now, but if you're already going to be in there, then it's worth it to do now, than it is to do it down the road piecemeal when things start failing. Just do everything now, and you'll just enjoy the car that much more when you get it back on the ground.


Yes by all means do the cradle mounts in poly. I did the dog bone mount in poly for about an hour. I could not believe the amount of vibration I heard & felt with it so I went back to a rubber dogbone.
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theogre
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Report this Post10-07-2013 02:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rubber is 25+ years old....
Even looks Ok to eyeball is often has problem.

I recommend and use:
Rubber for CA.
Polly or metal for Cradle.

See my Cave, Bushings and rest of section.

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DimeMachine
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Report this Post10-07-2013 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DimeMachineSend a Private Message to DimeMachineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Rubber is 25+ years old....
Even looks Ok to eyeball is often has problem.

I recommend and use:
Rubber for CA.
Polly or metal for Cradle.

See my Cave, Bushings and rest of section.



Agreed, but that is why I suggested using a pry bar on the large front lower A-arm bushings to test their condition. The ones in MN that I have owned and tested have been really good. I suspect this is so because they are quite large for what stresses are on them AND the ozone/UV rays/road chemicals/etc can only penetrate so deep into a fairly large bushing. Pressing in new bushings can sometimes cause problems too - that is the only reason I would check the lower front a arms out before just swapping in new ones.

[This message has been edited by DimeMachine (edited 10-07-2013).]

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eunospeed
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Report this Post10-07-2013 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eunospeedClick Here to Email eunospeedSend a Private Message to eunospeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Guys, no need for poly cradle mounts I have an 88 ;-). I appreciate everyone's input so far.... I guess I'm going to go ahead and do the bushings.
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Patrick
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Report this Post10-07-2013 09:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by eunospeed:

Guys, no need for poly cradle mounts I have an 88 ;-).


And that's why everyone should mention a few pertinent details about their Fieros (ie year, engine, tranny) when they post a question.

(Okay, okay... I know that Formulas were only available in '88. )

 
quote
Originally posted by eunospeed:

I'm getting ready to do new ball joints, tie-rod ends and struts on my Formula.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-07-2013).]

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theogre
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Report this Post10-08-2013 01:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DimeMachine:
Agreed, but that is why I suggested using a pry bar on the large front lower A-arm bushings to test their condition. The ones in MN that I have owned and tested have been really good. I suspect this is so because they are quite large for what stresses are on them AND the ozone/UV rays/road chemicals/etc can only penetrate so deep into a fairly large bushing. Pressing in new bushings can sometimes cause problems too - that is the only reason I would check the lower front a arms out before just swapping in new ones.

If tight on $ then maybe... Not just a old age problem.
New Moog and maybe others lower bushings controls brake reaction better then OE. Brake reaction is when LCA is push backward when braking.
That's the reason rear lower bushing rubber is thicker on Moog part.
See my Cave, Suspension Parts

Also I seen rubber look ok at rest on a jack and outside metal sell have fail for rust hidden by CA/frame. My car had one like that.

"Pressing in new bushings can sometimes cause problems too"
If so... in many cases:
CA is bad, likely from rusting. Get another one fast.
You need to support both "ears" when press a bushing in or out. see www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/125401.html#p1

Tips on Stuck bolts, see bushing article.
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