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Transmission swap guru's, need your help asap. by JHarvey
Started on: 10-06-2013 08:28 PM
Replies: 17 (219 views)
Last post by: GODFATHER on 10-07-2013 02:21 PM
JHarvey
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Report this Post10-06-2013 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JHarveySend a Private Message to JHarveyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Alright heres the situation, I have an 87 GT (Automatic)
The car is a daily driver and before I started the auto to manual swap i installed the manual computer to make sure it worked. It took about 20
seconds to crank but after it cracked it ran fine. After shutting the engine off and turning it back on it fires right up with no delay each time.

Upon doing the swap i used the AUTOMATIC engine harness to do the swap. Typically after hooking everything back up it wouldn't crank because
something about the plug that hooks up to the automatic transmission. If i read correctly I have to wire the large PINK wire and the large YELLOW
wire together. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Other problem. As stated before I installed the manual computer before doing the swap to make sure it was fine but now when I turn the key after doing
the swap I don't hear the fuel pump kick on but when i replace the computer with the automatic computer I then hear it. Makes no sense to me.
please help lol.
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MulletproofMonk
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Report this Post10-06-2013 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Try these threads:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/114919.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/129567.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/123678.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/126075.html

Fiero c500
A4 - Yellow - Starter Solenoid Control (automatic trans)
E2 - Purple - Starter Solenoid Control (manual trans)

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread
Modified stock air canister and base to 3.5 inch for 3800na

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

[This message has been edited by MulletproofMonk (edited 10-06-2013).]

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JHarvey
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Report this Post10-06-2013 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JHarveySend a Private Message to JHarveyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MulletproofMonk:

Fiero c500
A4 - Yellow - Starter Solenoid Control (automatic trans)
E2 - Purple - Starter Solenoid Control (manual trans)



wire those together?
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Report this Post10-06-2013 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JHarvey:
wire those together?


No, sorry. I was thinking you had a starting issue because the harnesses. They are pinned different for the starter based on the auto versus manual harness. I added some threads to read. I am having a little trouble following what you did...
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post10-07-2013 12:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What makes the ECM a MT or an AT is the PROM chip inside.

Take the MT chip out of your "MT ECM" and put it in the other ECM and see if that fixes your fuel pump prime problem. ECMs do fail on the fuel pump control output at times.
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JHarvey
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Report this Post10-07-2013 12:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JHarveySend a Private Message to JHarveyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What I'm saying is, I did an auto to manual swap. As of this moment only things that have been done are the pedal
swap, installed the master cylinder, and replacing the automatic transmission with the 4 speed. Also the center console
has been taken out and I have replaced the automatic shifter assembly with the 4 speed shifter assembly.

All of the wiring is the same. Theres no safety switch on the clutch pedal either. I'm even using the AUTOMATIC engine wiring harness but
have the manual ecm/ecu/computer plugged in.

Two problems:
1: Not starting (that should be fixed after bridging the yellow and pink or purple wires together on the transmission plug thats on the wiring harness.
2: I don't hear the fuel pump kick on with the manual computer plugged up however you can her it with the automatic computer plugged in.

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Report this Post10-07-2013 12:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JHarvey:


wire those together?


No

You already have the engine cranking correct? If so then you have all the wiring done already to get it to crank. That is what these wires control. There is nothing more you need to do to the thicker Yellow and thicker Purple wires.

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JHarvey
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Report this Post10-07-2013 01:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JHarveySend a Private Message to JHarveyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

What makes the ECM a MT or an AT is the PROM chip inside.

Take the MT chip out of your "MT ECM" and put it in the other ECM and see if that fixes your fuel pump prime problem. ECMs do fail on the fuel pump control output at times.


I'll try that but as stated before I had the M/T ecu plugged in and it ran fine with no check engine light. But yet with the automatic ecu plugged in I had a code for EGR.
When the M/T ecu was plugged up I let it run for about 5 minutes with revving also trying to make it throw the egr code... never happened. But ill try the prom swap.
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Report this Post10-07-2013 01:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JHarvey:

What I'm saying is, I did an auto to manual swap. As of this moment only things that have been done are the pedal
swap, installed the master cylinder, and replacing the automatic transmission with the 4 speed. Also the center console
has been taken out and I have replaced the automatic shifter assembly with the 4 speed shifter assembly.

All of the wiring is the same. Theres no safety switch on the clutch pedal either. I'm even using the AUTOMATIC engine wiring harness but
have the manual ecm/ecu/computer plugged in.

Two problems:
1: Not starting (that should be fixed after bridging the yellow and pink or purple wires together on the transmission plug thats on the wiring harness.
2: I don't hear the fuel pump kick on with the manual computer plugged up however you can her it with the automatic computer plugged in.



If by what you mean by "Not starting" you mean not cranking at all then yeah you have to deal with the thick yellow and thick purple wires.. However at the start of this you talked about cranking the engine up so this is confusing. Are you talking about the engine not cranking at all and thus not starting, or are you talking about the engine cranking but not starting up right away?

By the way, if your problem is that the engine doesn't start up right away with the MT ECM in place, that most likely is because the fuel pump relay isn't priming the fuel system.

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JHarvey
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Report this Post10-07-2013 01:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JHarveySend a Private Message to JHarveyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:


No

You already have the engine cranking correct? If so then you have all the wiring done already to get it to crank. That is what these wires control. There is nothing more you need to do to the thicker Yellow and thicker Purple wires.


No its not cranking yet. I haven't done anything to those wires yet but im 99% sure that will solve the cranking issue (I ran out of daylight lol)
But with the automatic computer plugged in I manually started the car by tripping the starter with a screw driver and it ran fine. However I didnt try that
with the M/T ecu since I never heard the fuel pump kick on and by that time it was getting dark.
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Report this Post10-07-2013 01:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JHarvey:


I'll try that but as stated before I had the M/T ecu plugged in and it ran fine with no check engine light. But yet with the automatic ecu plugged in I had a code for EGR.
When the M/T ecu was plugged up I let it run for about 5 minutes with revving also trying to make it throw the egr code... never happened. But ill try the prom swap.


You really shouldn't be getting an EGR light without driving the car. The EGR system isn't activated unless you are driving on the road.
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phonedawgz
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phonedawgz

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Member since Dec 2009
 
quote
Originally posted by JHarvey:


No its not cranking yet. I haven't done anything to those wires yet but im 99% sure that will solve the cranking issue (I ran out of daylight lol)
But with the automatic computer plugged in I manually started the car by tripping the starter with a screw driver and it ran fine. However I didnt try that
with the M/T ecu since I never heard the fuel pump kick on and by that time it was getting dark.


What you want to do is to pull the purple wire out of the location at E2 and move it to the A4 location. It is explained how to do it here - http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/129567.html#p2

Also, yes your C500 connector DOES have the white fork in the side. You HAVE to remove it or the pins will never come out. After the fork is out then you still have to depress the tang that retains the pin in the connector to get it to pull out.
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JHarvey
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Report this Post10-07-2013 01:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JHarveySend a Private Message to JHarveyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:


You really shouldn't be getting an EGR light without driving the car. The EGR system isn't activated unless you are driving on the road.


Oh alright. I'll swap the proms and see if that helps.
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Report this Post10-07-2013 01:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sounds like the only time the fuel pump runs is when you get oil pressure up. That is why the long crank before start. Larry
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Report this Post10-07-2013 01:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JHarveySend a Private Message to JHarveyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by trotterlg:

Sounds like the only time the fuel pump runs is when you get oil pressure up. That is why the long crank before start. Larry


i just figured it had something to do with the computer having to recognize that it was in a different car.
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Report this Post10-07-2013 01:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Probably starts up fast the second time because there is still pressure in the fuel system. Larry
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Report this Post10-07-2013 12:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for edfieroClick Here to Email edfieroSend a Private Message to edfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Slightly off topic, but I have a pet peeve of people staying a car won't 'CRANK', when they want to say that the it doesn't START UP / RUN.

If you say to me that it wont crank.... to me this means it won't TURN OVER. Like a dead battery or bad Starter or Seized crank/pistion

If it turns over and doesn't start that is a different set of problems all together. Like a fuel problem

Crank - Think old Ford Model T, with a hand crank that you must turn to start the car.
Won't Crank means engine doesn't turn over.
Won't Fire/Run/Start can all be used to mean that the engine is turning over when you attempt to start it.
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Report this Post10-07-2013 02:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GODFATHERClick Here to Email GODFATHERSend a Private Message to GODFATHEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by edfiero:

Slightly off topic, but I have a pet peeve of people staying a car won't 'CRANK', when they want to say that the it doesn't START UP / RUN.

If you say to me that it wont crank.... to me this means it won't TURN OVER. Like a dead battery or bad Starter or Seized crank/pistion

If it turns over and doesn't start that is a different set of problems all together. Like a fuel problem

Crank - Think old Ford Model T, with a hand crank that you must turn to start the car.
Won't Crank means engine doesn't turn over.
Won't Fire/Run/Start can all be used to mean that the engine is turning over when you attempt to start it.


LOL Customers come in all the time and I have to break in down to them and ask is the engine cranking and turning over or if it cranks and doesn't start.
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