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LS4 starter location by aircraft_electrician
Started on: 10-03-2013 05:50 PM
Replies: 8 (1357 views)
Last post by: dobey on 10-30-2013 08:46 AM
aircraft_electrician
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Report this Post10-03-2013 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aircraft_electricianSend a Private Message to aircraft_electricianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've been doing some research trying to figure out which V8 to swap into my '86 SE, but everything I've read says the Northstar won't work with the Muncie trans because the coolant crossover interferes with the shift arm and cables. I've also read the LS4 won't work with the Muncie because there's no starter mount.

I really want to use my transmission for 2 reasons: 1, I'm cheap and want to do this on a budget. 2, I have a race-prepped Muncie with an EP limited slip diff that was built for a Citation X11 rally car.

Anyway, I came across this picture of GM's prototype for the FWD LSx and they chose to mount the starter under the oil pan:

Prototype LS FWD oil pan by aircraft_electrician, on Flickr

Then I came across a couple of pictures of the GTO's LS1 oil pan:

GTO oil pan by aircraft_electrician, on Flickr

GTO oil pan side by aircraft_electrician, on Flickr

GTO oil pan bottom by aircraft_electrician, on Flickr

I got to thinking that we might be able to use the GTO oil pan and mount a mini starter under the oil pan. Has anyone tried this? Do you guys think it might work?

I would love to be able to swap an LS4 into my Fiero, but I really don't want to swap the transmission.


Edited to fix pics

[This message has been edited by aircraft_electrician (edited 10-03-2013).]

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Report this Post10-03-2013 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The GTO pan probably has room to mount the starter to it, but you will need to machine the vertical surface so it is parallel with the flywheel. You will also need to notch the other side (where the oil pickup is) to clear the side cradle rail. Here is a picture of an LS4 with LS4 pan on an 88 cradle:


The stock LS4 pan has a large opening similar to the prototype pan, but not currently large enough for a starter or a good mounting surface for it either, but if you are going to cut up a pan anyway, it might be worth modding the stock LS4 pan:


If you want to go even further, a friend of mine (who lives in Mattoon, IL and about 60 miles from you) was working on a RWD 5.3L install with a 4 speed and mounted his starter on the axle side by cutting a large angle relief in the oil pan and mounting his starter to the adapter plate... but is another consideration:


The 4 speed (and Isuzu, and getrag with external release lever) can't use my starter mount bracket, or the stock LS4 starter location for that matter, due to the clutch release arm being right where the starter mounts. Here is the fixture plate for the stock LS4 starter pad and it doesn't fit on top of the cross shaft (let alone the release lever) on the isuzu transmission shown.


Here is my bolt on starter mount for the F40, and it could be adapted to the HTOB 92-94 getrag and the F23:


This is an old thread before any LS4/Manual conversions were complete with lots of brainstorming of options.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-2-098254.html

There are currently only 3 running LS4 swaps with a manual transmission (2 F40's and 1 NSX transmission), but there are a few more in the works.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-03-2013).]

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Dave E Bouy
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Report this Post10-03-2013 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dave E BouyClick Here to Email Dave E BouySend a Private Message to Dave E BouyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by aircraft_electrician:

I've been doing some research trying to figure out which V8 to swap into my '86 SE, but everything I've read says the Northstar won't work with the Muncie trans because the coolant crossover interferes with the shift arm and cables.



My son and I actually had a muncie N* combination that worked quite well. We redesigned the shift cable bracket by moving the mounting point a bit to the drivers side and for the clutch arm all we did was file couple of teeth off the inside of the mating splines and rotated the arm just one or two splines just enough to clear the coolant crossover.

DF

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aircraft_electrician
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Report this Post10-04-2013 10:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aircraft_electricianSend a Private Message to aircraft_electricianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you have any pictures of the mods you made to the Muncie to make it work with the Northstar?

[This message has been edited by aircraft_electrician (edited 10-04-2013).]

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Dave E Bouy
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Report this Post10-04-2013 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dave E BouyClick Here to Email Dave E BouySend a Private Message to Dave E BouyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Will try to get some over the weekend.
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Madess
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Report this Post10-29-2013 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadessClick Here to Email MadessSend a Private Message to MadessEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
any luck with figuring out something for the 4 speed, anyone know where we can get one of those oil pans modified to fit a starter?
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ericjon262
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Report this Post10-29-2013 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
got access to a welder? the pan rail on LSx motors is flat, shouldn't be too hard to whip a pan up out of sheet metal. that's how I plan to get around the same issue with the Atlas 4.2 I6 into my truck.

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we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Will
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Report this Post10-30-2013 07:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There are lots of companies that cam make custom oil pans for LSX engines... Going to be $400-500, though.

Could also go dry sump and have plenty of space for starter mounting under the pan.
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dobey
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Report this Post10-30-2013 08:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Madess:
anyone know where we can get one of those oil pans modified to fit a starter?


If you mean the "prototype LS FWD oil pan" then the answer is nowhere. It was a one-off GM did to shove an LS1 in a FWD configuration. It was a prototype. The resulting FWD LS V8 in those platforms, moved the starter to the transmission side, on the 4t65e with the special bell housing.
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