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I think I have a rod knock by Boostdreamer
Started on: 09-24-2013 10:34 PM
Replies: 100 (1724 views)
Last post by: Boostdreamer on 10-23-2013 11:30 PM
Boostdreamer
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Report this Post09-24-2013 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mine sounds kinda like this one:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...090219-2-079101.html

It was running great then this happened:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/130203.html

I guess I'll swap the engines. QUESTION: It is an 86 Auto and I'll be putting in an 87 engine that is mated to a Getrag 5-speed. Is it a direct swap or do I need to change the flywheels? Change anything else?

Thanks,
Jonathan
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Report this Post09-24-2013 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The only differences between 86 and 87 are the oil pan and timing cover (you can leave the 87 pan and cover on the engine. They'll work fine in your car.) and the upper intake plenum. (The "Fiero" on the 87 is engraved, while the 86 uses a decal.) The vacuum fitting for the power brake hose is, IIRC, larger on the 87. Not a big deal.
You can use your 86 flexplate on the 87 crank with no issues.
The 87 engines were supposed to have better oiling to the bearings.
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Report this Post09-24-2013 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Raydar! I was afraid I'd have balance compatibility issues. I was thinking the 87 was neutrally balanced like the 88. I now know the 87 is externally balanced like the 86 and older 2.8s.

Jonathan
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Report this Post09-25-2013 08:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I understand that the bolt lengths are different for the flywheels and flexplates. I'll obviously have to use flexplate bolts.

Can I re-use the ones in the 86 engine? Are they a standard size that I can find a match for? Advance Auto said it would take a week to get the Fiero-specific bolts part #.

Jonathan
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Report this Post09-25-2013 10:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would swap in a Camaro motor.
http://answers.yahoo.com/qu...0101230192423AAEjTgf
The Video (not mine),short video for anyone who has a slow internet connection.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21KNSoHSMGM
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Report this Post09-25-2013 11:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by James Bond 007:

I would swap in a Camaro motor.
http://answers.yahoo.com/qu...0101230192423AAEjTgf
The Video (not mine),short video for anyone who has a slow internet connection.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21KNSoHSMGM


If I already had a Camaro engine sitting on my driveway, I would. I'll be using the engine that came out of my very first Fiero. This will be the THIRD car that it will have powered.

Anybody know anything about those flexplate bolts?

Jonathan

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Report this Post09-25-2013 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
re-use the flex plate bolts. a drop of Locktight wouldn't hurt.
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Report this Post09-25-2013 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

re-use the flex plate bolts. a drop of Locktight wouldn't hurt.


Thanks!
Jonathan
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Report this Post09-26-2013 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Those bolts should be re-usable, as long as they're in good condition.

Also, as Raydar said, the '87 V6 should be a direct swap-in, for the most part. IIRC, the only issue you may encounter is the different heater hose arrangement. On the '87 V6, the return hose attaches to the passenger side coolant pipe, instead of the water pump. So on the '87 engine, there will be a plug in the water pump where the heater hose fitting goes on your '86. That's easy enough to fix. Just swap in the hose fitting.

Also, I think the coolant crossover tubes are different between the manual and auto equipped V6. You may want to look into that.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 09-26-2013).]

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Report this Post09-26-2013 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Sparkys 88GTClick Here to Email Sparkys 88GTSend a Private Message to Sparkys 88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pay close attention to the 87 engine when you pull it. I have seen (very rarely) that if it is a lates model 87 it could be neutrally balanced. Just look at the flywheel that is installed on it currently and check for the balance weights.....if it turns out to be neutral balanced you cannot use your 86 flexplate you would have to get the flexplate for the 88 2.8. But like I said it would have to be a very late 87 for this to occur. Good luck getting your car back on the road....

[This message has been edited by Sparkys 88GT (edited 09-26-2013).]

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Report this Post09-26-2013 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

...IIRC, the only issue you may encounter is the different heater hose arrangement. On the '87 V6, the return hose attaches to the passenger side coolant pipe, instead of the water pump. So on the '87 engine, there will be a plug in the water pump where the heater hose fitting goes on your '86.
...


DOH!! I forgot about the heater hoses. Thanks!
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Report this Post09-26-2013 02:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was thinking there might be a heater hose difference. Thanks for the heads-up.

I'll take note of the flywheel, too. I know extremely little about engine internals so I hope I don't screw this up.

Will there be a notch or something that will ensure that the flexplate goes on in the correct orientation or do I need to find the compression stroke on cylinder number 1 or something like that?

Going out to get started. Wish me luck!

Jonathan
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Report this Post09-26-2013 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The crankshaft will have a "blank" hole between two of the flywheel bolt holes. The flywheel / flexplate should have a matching hole in it. Just line them up, and you're good.
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Report this Post09-26-2013 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

The crankshaft will have a "blank" hole between two of the flywheel bolt holes. The flywheel / flexplate should have a matching hole in it. Just line them up, and you're good.


Good deal!

Should I use the car's original 86 Auto engine wiring harness instead of the 87 manual wiring harness?

Jonathan

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Report this Post09-26-2013 11:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The '87 2.5L fuel lines are on the passenger's side; tied in with the expansion tank behind the wheel well liner.
The '86 2.5L fuel lines are on the driver's side.
The '87 2.5L has distributor-less ignition; the ECM is different from the '86.
The '87 2.5L throttle cable has a different attachment arrangement on the engine.

[This message has been edited by David Hambleton (edited 09-26-2013).]

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Report this Post09-27-2013 12:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Both engines are 2.8 V6's. Thanks for taking the time, though.

Jonathan
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Report this Post09-27-2013 07:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for VF1SkullangelClick Here to visit VF1Skullangel's HomePageClick Here to Email VF1SkullangelSend a Private Message to VF1SkullangelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My car was making a lifter noise. I threw in some Rislone and it the noise has so far gone away.

Id try that before spending big bucks.
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Report this Post09-27-2013 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by VF1Skullangel:

My car was making a lifter noise. I threw in some Rislone and it the noise has so far gone away.

Id try that before spending big bucks.


This wasn't something that came on gradually. It was sudden and severe. I thought the drivetrain was going to bust through the deck lid. I'm all for trying the cheap stuff first but I think mine is way beyond the capabilities of even the best oil treatment.

So far, I've spent more money on re-buying tools I already have. I have jack stands and dollys but they are all being used. So, I've got another $55 invested in those again. I also bought an 18mm combination wrench for about $10. I already have the front main seal that I need and I have a set of left-hand thread drill bits for the broken manifold bolt. Wish me luck on THAT one! So, all in all, I shouldn't have much more expense involved. Just time and grime!

The only thing I can think of that I might need would be a gasket that goes between the upper and lower plenum. I'm guessing I have to remove the upper part to swap the wiring harnesses between the engines. Can anyone confirm the need to remove the plenum?

Jonathan

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Report this Post09-27-2013 09:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
[B]Originally posted by Boostdreamer

The only thing I can think of that I might need would be a gasket that goes between the upper and lower plenum. I'm guessing I have to remove the upper part to swap the wiring harnesses between the engines. Can anyone confirm the need to remove the plenum?

Jonathan


I think I found the answer to my question. From what I understand, it looks like the wiring to the fuel injectors is a completely separate harness. I should be able to just leave it on both engines! There's a bullet dodged!

Gotta go get started with that stupid manifold bolt.

Jonathan

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Report this Post09-27-2013 12:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, there's a big flat (6-wire) connector somewhere near the thermostat neck. That's the connector plug for the fuel injector harness.
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Report this Post09-27-2013 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The manifold bolt thing isn't going so well. Heading to Sears for this: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/...prdNo=17#reviewsWrap

I know, I know. Not getting my hopes too high. Been disappointed by Craftsman enough times. This one is linked from Alden's website so hopefully it is a good product made FOR Craftsman.

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 09-27-2013).]

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Report this Post09-27-2013 01:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm guessing the '87 engine doesn't have exhaust manifolds? Since you're swapping in another engine, you could just break the head(s) off the manifold bolt(s), then get new bolts to replace them. You're junking the old engine anyway, right? Actually, the exhaust manifold studs from Rodney Dickman or the Fiero Store might be a good idea. You'll never have to worry about stuck bolts again.

edit to add: Oops, missed your earlier question. It would be better to use the appropriate harness for your setup (i.e. auto harness for your auto tranny).

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 09-27-2013).]

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Report this Post09-27-2013 02:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I won't be junking the 86 engine anytime soon. There are too many good parts to pull off of it. Not going to re-build it either. If any of my extra engines get rebuilt, it will be the 88 2.8.

The 87 exhaust manifolds are off. I already have the TFS studs to go back in. i have a set of ported manifolds that I sandblasted so I'll put them on. I also worked on the Y-pipe restriction on another exhaust. I'll see if that will work too.









Jonathan
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Report this Post09-27-2013 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry, I thought you were trying to get the manifolds off the '86 engine.
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Report this Post09-27-2013 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
All good. I appreciate the feedback.

Jonathan
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Report this Post09-27-2013 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, I spent the day with my manifold bolt. I drilled it out three times. Why would I do that, you might ask? Because two different extractor bits got stuck in the hole and broke off!

And so concludes my attempts to ever use "easy outs" of any sort. Next time I'll hoist the whole engine into the back of the Pilot and haul it to a machine shop! I'm pretty fed up with Craftsman, too. Maybe their "Pro" line is good but if you ask me, they shouldn't have a pro line. They built a reputation for quality tools with the Craftsman name. If it says Craftsman, it should be made to the standards that built that reputation. Not so in my experience. A partial list of disappointments: Two gas push mowers, a gas weed trimmer, a multi-meter, two cordless drills (really the batteries more than the drills), drill bits, a few ratchets, this set of easy outs, prolly others.

Believe it or not, my left-hand drill bits from China Freight worked better than my Craftsman bits!

Anyway, on with the show. Gotta either tap that hole or put in a heli-coil. Maybe a better option? Never done either of those two things. Well, kinda one of them.

Jonathan
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Report this Post09-28-2013 08:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Know anything about exhaust manifold gaskets? What do I do with the front bank since that metal plate thing is there?

1. Head, gasket, sheet metal, manifold?
2. Head, sheet metal, gasket, manifold?
3. Head, gasket, sheetmetal, ANOTHER gasket, manifold?

Maybe modify the sheet metal like this?
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...020825-2-018487.html

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 09-28-2013).]

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Report this Post09-28-2013 09:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think option #1 is the way it's supposed to go.
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Report this Post09-28-2013 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, option # 1 is correct.
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Report this Post09-28-2013 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Boost, if you haven't seen it already, read this thread regarding the manifold gasket and heat shield.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...130379.html#lastpost
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Report this Post09-28-2013 09:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After seeing the thread in the link I posted above, I decided to modify my heat shield. Instead of doing it like that guy, I put my manifold on the shield and traced the outline of the flanges then cut them out. I'm hoping that will give me the best situation. The manifold will be directly mated to the head and sealed with the proper gasket. The shield will still be in place. The fit is tight so noise shouldn't be an issue.

Jonathan
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Report this Post09-29-2013 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The plenum and valve covers look good on the 86 but like crap on the 87. Since I have to loosen the middle plenum to remove the wiring harness (easily) I'm going to swap the nice stuff over.

For valve cover gaskets, are the blue rubber ones the recommended ones to get? Which goop do I use with them?

Jonathan
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Report this Post09-29-2013 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you're using the Fiero aluminum valve covers, go for the rubber gaskets. The rubber gaskets are designed to fit in the aluminum valve covers. The cork gaskets are for the sheet-metal valve covers, and won't seal properly with the aluminum valve covers.

Chances are, your lower intake manifold and cylinder heads will have a slight mismatch where they meet. That can cause a gap under the valve cover gasket. You can use some RTV silicone to fill the gap. Aside from that, gasket sealer shouldn't be necessary. But it wouldn't hurt, either.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 09-29-2013).]

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Report this Post09-29-2013 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Second the rubber gaskets. (I've seen blue and black.) And the dab of silicone where the heads and the intake manifold meet.

While you're in there... If you're going to remove the plenum, I would remove the throttle body coolant lines as well.
They can just be removed from the throttle body. Nothing on that end will need to be plugged. You'll have to loop a hose between the hose barbs on the thermostat housing, however. (I removed the tab from the MAP sensor bracket with a cutoff wheel. You can leave it or remove it.)

Some people may differ with this suggestion, but I found that it made it much easier to get to my distributor, and I never had any issues as a result of having removed them.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 09-29-2013).]

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Report this Post09-29-2013 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I took the two access plates off the bottom and removed the starter. I see the three bolts that hold the flex plate to the torque converter. How do I get them out? Do I loosen the spark plugs and rotate the engine at the pulley?

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 09-29-2013).]

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Report this Post09-29-2013 03:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can use the bolt in the center of the crankshaft pulley to turn the engine. Turn it clockwise, so you don't accidentally loosen the bolt.
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Report this Post09-29-2013 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can rotate the engine from the pulley, or you can jam a big/long screwdriver through one of the larger holes in the flexplate and "lever" it around. If there is a point to lever against.
You will also need to find something to stop the engine from turning while you are breaking the bolts loose.
Again, a screwdriver wedged into one of the big holes in the flexplate will usually work, or something between the ring gear teeth and the tranny housing.
If you have air tools, an impact wrench will break the bolts loose, with less tendency to try and turn the engine.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 09-29-2013).]

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Boostdreamer
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From: Kingsport, Tennessee USA
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Report this Post09-29-2013 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I do have an air wrench. I'll see if I can get it in there. Am I correct in thinking that those three bolts have to come out in order to separate the engine from the trans? The Haynes manual didn't list it as part of the process.

The swap is definately going slower than I planned. On the positive side, all the cradle bolts came loose and the helicoil worked flawlessly! Thank you Napa Auto Parts for the helicoil set and the matching drill bit!

I had to chase some of the stud hole threads which took extra time. Luckily, I bought a tap and die set from China Freight some time ago. I barely remembered having it and this was the first time I had used it.

Does anyone know if there is a specific torque value for the TFS exhause manifold studs?

Jonathan

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Blacktree
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Report this Post09-29-2013 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You don't necessarily have to detach the torque converter from the flexplate, but it's a good idea. If you leave it attached, then the torque converter will come off along with the engine. When you do that, you run the risk of damaging the input shaft on the transmission if things get cockeyed during the process. Detaching the torque converter from the flexplate completely negates that risk.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 09-29-2013).]

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Boostdreamer
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Report this Post09-29-2013 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

You don't necessarily have to detach the torque converter from the flexplate, but it's a good idea. If you leave it attached, then the torque converter will come off along with the engine. When you do that, you run the risk of damaging the input shaft on the transmission if things get cockeyed during the process. Detaching the torque converter from the flexplate completely negates that risk.



That sounds like a good enough reason to me!!

Jonathan

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