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I'm fed up (clutch issues) by Tuna Helper
Started on: 09-18-2013 04:18 PM
Replies: 21 (389 views)
Last post by: Gall757 on 11-04-2013 12:09 PM
Tuna Helper
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Report this Post09-18-2013 04:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tuna HelperClick Here to Email Tuna HelperSend a Private Message to Tuna HelperEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok here goes...

It was last year I think... I was driving "spiritedly" home when on one stretch I stomped on the clutch and grabbed another gear. when I got to my driveway I found that my clutch wouldn't release. I was slow enough to make the turn and killed the ignition once in my drive. So then I proceeded to order a new master cylinder http://rodneydickman.com/ca...33c348349a2fd9b4a3f5 (late style, matches what was already on the car) a new slave cylinder http://rodneydickman.com/ca...33c348349a2fd9b4a3f5 (the car is an '86, built with a 5 speed but swapped to a 4 when the 3800sc was swapped in) I bled it. And I bled it. And bled it some more. So, thinking it might be the pedal, I bought a new one. http://www.fierostore.com/P...px?s=66423&d=103&p=1

Today I have spent all morning working on it and reading threads. I vacuum bled, and on occasion ran the master out of fluid. Twice actually, last time I just turned the bottle upside down on the master while I bled bubbles. I need a helper so I can measure how much movement I am getting. Last time I measured it was right at one inch.

After reading threads I have checked that the cruise control switch isn't limiting the pedal, which is at least an inch higher than the brake. The adjustable banjo is not putting preload on the mc, and neither is too loose. I went as far as to take the clutch release lever off and see if the rod had "pushed through" the plastic bushing. Nope not yet. The lever is indexed to only go on one way and hasn't slipped on the shaft.

There is pressure at the pedal, it feels good. It does not pump up and release. It does go into gear when the motor is off, just not when the motor is running.

So my two questions are, could it be that I have either the wrong master or slave compared to the other one (Larger slave bore = less stroke) And, does anyone have any ideas that I haven't already tried?
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mitchjl22
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Report this Post09-18-2013 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My dad's pressure plate or TOB just went out and cause the same symptoms. My Fiero did it, his did it. You probably have the same issue.
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mitchjl22
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Report this Post09-18-2013 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

mitchjl22

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Oh, and i feel your pain. I spent 3 days over a long weekend doing nothing but bleeding the clutch.
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Slowbuild
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Report this Post09-18-2013 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SlowbuildSend a Private Message to SlowbuildEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You may be getting the same thing I had...too much slave movement. Check to see if you can change gears with the engine on at any point in the clutch throw. Mine was coming out at 1/2 way down, then back 'in' (something touching) past 3/4 of the way down. I adjusted the banjo to get it into the sweet spot (IE: Shorter).


Chay
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DaytonTD
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Report this Post09-18-2013 05:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaytonTDClick Here to Email DaytonTDSend a Private Message to DaytonTDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm guessing its something internal such as the throwout bearing as mentioned or the clutch springs themselves. You can take inspection plate off on the bottom of the transmission (held by 3 or so small screws) and see if anything looks weird or if there are any pieces in there. Not sure how much you will be able to see though, you may end up having to split the transmission and/or removing the engine and cradle to get at it. Check the travel first though with the slave against the clutch fork arm like it would normally be.

[This message has been edited by DaytonTD (edited 09-18-2013).]

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Tuna Helper
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Report this Post09-18-2013 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tuna HelperClick Here to Email Tuna HelperSend a Private Message to Tuna HelperEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I read about too much slave movement and tried shifting into first at all clutch positions, none worked. I've got about 7/8 movement at the slave, just measured today. While my friend was here pushing on the clutch I watched the master and tapped on it. There were some bubbles. So I am going to raise the back of the car and try to get more air out. And I'll see if I can get that inspection plate off.
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Tuna Helper
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Report this Post09-18-2013 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tuna HelperClick Here to Email Tuna HelperSend a Private Message to Tuna HelperEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Question regarding the master...



The equalizer port in the picture... Mine appears to either have a bubble right there that won't come out, OR (more likely I think) the piston hasn't retracted all the way.

I unbolted the mc and lengthened the pushrod so I could push the master and it would in turn push the piston in some. It looks like whatever is in there (the piston I believe) moves back and forth. According to the above picture the port should be unblocked. The pushrod has a small amount of in and out play. Is that normal? I'm about to take the MC out and apart to see if something is wrong. That means bleeding again though...
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DaytonTD
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Report this Post09-18-2013 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaytonTDClick Here to Email DaytonTDSend a Private Message to DaytonTDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did you inspect your entire clutch line? Also the fittings for leaks? Could be sucking in air.
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Patrick
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Report this Post09-18-2013 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tuna Helper:

So I am going to raise the back of the car and try to get more air out.


If you're gravity bleeding the system, raise the FRONT of the car and also the driver's side of the car.

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sledcaddie
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Report this Post09-18-2013 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sledcaddieSend a Private Message to sledcaddieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know what year your Fiero is, but I had a similar problem with my 85 V-6 4 speed. The pedal kept going to the floor, and I was grinding gears. It came on fairly suddenly. I had both clutch cylinders replaced to no avail. Turned out that the flimsy OEM clutch lever folded. I replaced it with an aftermarket one that was much sturdier, and it's been fine every since. Make sure to check that, to eliminate it as a source of the problem.
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Gall757
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Report this Post09-18-2013 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The problem is not hydraulics....it is clutch plate or throw-out bearing. I think you are going to have to open it up.....
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Tuna Helper
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Report this Post09-18-2013 09:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tuna HelperClick Here to Email Tuna HelperSend a Private Message to Tuna HelperEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I didn't want to have to do that, but I guess I have to.

Pulled the mc and bench bled it, got some air out. put it back on, filled it, and went back to vacuum bleeding. Ran the mc out. Bled the mc in the car, then back to bleeding the slave. Decided to try some aquarium tubing and an aquarium check valve. I figured that way I could "pump" it by pulling in the sc rod, which does work, got some air out, and gives me extra time to keep the mc full.

I'm going to pack it in for the night and tomorrow see about dropping the stupid cradle.
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Tuna Helper
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Report this Post09-18-2013 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tuna HelperClick Here to Email Tuna HelperSend a Private Message to Tuna HelperEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Tuna Helper

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quote
Originally posted by sledcaddie:

I don't know what year your Fiero is, but I had a similar problem with my 85 V-6 4 speed. The pedal kept going to the floor, and I was grinding gears. It came on fairly suddenly. I had both clutch cylinders replaced to no avail. Turned out that the flimsy OEM clutch lever folded. I replaced it with an aftermarket one that was much sturdier, and it's been fine every since. Make sure to check that, to eliminate it as a source of the problem.


Read the first post again.
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FieroTony
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Report this Post09-19-2013 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroTonyClick Here to Email FieroTonySend a Private Message to FieroTonyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here's what I found after a weekend of bleeding and rebleeding, new slave and clutch master cylinders. This was my first thought though, some where in the clutch ass'y. Just tried to do the less labor route.


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thesameguy
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Report this Post09-19-2013 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like there might be something wrong with your pressure plate, unless maybe you got one of the fancy new asymmetrical ones.
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Tuna Helper
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Report this Post11-03-2013 06:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tuna HelperClick Here to Email Tuna HelperSend a Private Message to Tuna HelperEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I finally split the motor and trans tonight…




IIRC Camaro clutches are used… time to start searching for what to use.
And I might as well have the pressure plate and flywheel resurfaced.
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Gall757
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Report this Post11-03-2013 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The transmission and clutch do not like each other. Are you using a stock M17 Muncie?
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Tuna Helper
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Report this Post11-03-2013 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tuna HelperClick Here to Email Tuna HelperSend a Private Message to Tuna HelperEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The car is an 86 and originally had a 5 speed. They guy who did the engine swap also swapped the trans. I don't know if it's stock or not.
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Gall757
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Report this Post11-03-2013 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If it is a Fiero 4 speed, the clutch choices will be the same I think. If there is no adapter plate or other strange hardware, it must be a normal trans. The HD Ram from the Fiero Store seems to work well.

http://www.fierostore.com/P.../Detail.aspx?s=54005
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Patrick
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Report this Post11-03-2013 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It must've been making some awful noises at some point.

 
quote
Originally posted by Tuna Helper:

I found that my clutch wouldn't release.



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newfiejeff
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Report this Post11-04-2013 11:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And you never heard anything?
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Gall757
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Report this Post11-04-2013 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe the flywheel is too thick. If it were not re-surfaced, this would be the damage I would expect to see.
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