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Difference between 91 and 93 4.9 ECM by falcon_ca
Started on: 08-26-2013 08:38 PM
Replies: 17 (654 views)
Last post by: falcon_ca on 09-04-2013 09:34 PM
falcon_ca
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Report this Post08-26-2013 08:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for falcon_caClick Here to Email falcon_caSend a Private Message to falcon_caEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I bought my 4.9 the seller told me that it was a 91.

When I was reading about part numbers and ECM/PCM modules numbers I discovered that my engine is a 93.

When Stickpony and Fieroddiction programmed the ePROMs I have, I specified that it was for a 91.

Is there any significant difference between an 91 and an 93 Cadillac 4.9 eProm ?

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"I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

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paulcal
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Report this Post08-26-2013 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It depends on the transmission. I believe the 93 uses the 4t60E which is controlled electronically by the ECM.
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chetw77cruiser
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Report this Post08-26-2013 10:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What ecm do you have and what ecm did they program for? 16132240, 16123860, etc. Did the stock memcal have a 4 letter ID on a silver sticker? If so, let me know.

[This message has been edited by chetw77cruiser (edited 08-26-2013).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post08-26-2013 11:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by paulcal:

It depends on the transmission. I believe the 93 uses the 4t60E which is controlled electronically by the ECM.


The 91 also uses the 4T60E, but there were some differences in the connectors/pinouts, IIRC.
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falcon_ca
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Report this Post08-27-2013 07:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for falcon_caClick Here to Email falcon_caSend a Private Message to falcon_caEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My transmission is the stock Getrag 5 speed that was in my Formula.

The stock ECM is a 16132240 AZXF.
The stock memcal has been sent to FieroAddiction as Core and I don't know what was originally on the memcal he sent me. I bought the Stockpony style memcal from a fellow member here on PFF so I don't know either what was on it.

Stock ECM

------------------
"I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

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MulletproofMonk
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Report this Post08-27-2013 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think that the 91 and 93 are the same, but the 92 is different because of wiring. I can't confirm that, but it seems like that is stuck in my head from Ed Parks. You could always pickup a 93 pcm from the junk yard to be sure (unless there is a wiring difference)...

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falcon_ca
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Report this Post08-27-2013 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for falcon_caClick Here to Email falcon_caSend a Private Message to falcon_caEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My swap is done so my Formula runs with a 93 4.9 controlled by its original ECM but with an unknown memcal.

Both memcals seem to be correctly adapted to a manual transmission and a car without VATS.

The only problem I have is that it is running rich, but with the modifications I have done to the engine, I have to fine tune the memcal.

So, according to what I read here, I should not expect any major problem if I run an unknown memcal in a 93 ECM.

------------------
"I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

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olejoedad
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Report this Post08-28-2013 08:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
More info available in MickeyMoose's excellent "my 4.9 wiring thread".....
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Raydar
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Report this Post08-28-2013 09:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by falcon_ca:

...
The only problem I have is that it is running rich, but with the modifications I have done to the engine, I have to fine tune the memcal.
....


Make sure the power steering input is jumpered.
If not, it will cause a rich condition.
Are you running an Allante intake? That'll do it too, unless the IAT/MAT tables are modified.
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falcon_ca
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Report this Post08-28-2013 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for falcon_caClick Here to Email falcon_caSend a Private Message to falcon_caEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Make sure the power steering input is jumpered.
If not, it will cause a rich condition.
Are you running an Allante intake? That'll do it too, unless the IAT/MAT tables are modified.


The mods are:
- Allante rocker arms rails
- Allante Starter
- 19LB. Fuel injectors. Rebuilt Design 3
- Throttle body spacer
- Intake and exhaust manifolds ported at gasket size
- Heads ported as well
- Delta CAM « 480 lift 205 duration »
- MSD Coil, Cap, cable and 6A


------------------
"I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

Work done 07-08 | Work done 08-09 | Work done 09-10 | Work done 10-11 | Work done 11-12 | Work done 12-13 |Work done 13-14 | 4.9 Swap |Parts for sale

[This message has been edited by falcon_ca (edited 08-28-2013).]

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falcon_ca
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Report this Post08-28-2013 11:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for falcon_caClick Here to Email falcon_caSend a Private Message to falcon_caEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

More info available in MickeyMoose's excellent "my 4.9 wiring thread".....



I built my harness with this thread opened in front of me.

Now I have to take more attention to the particularities of the 92-93

------------------
"I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

Work done 07-08 | Work done 08-09 | Work done 09-10 | Work done 10-11 | Work done 11-12 | Work done 12-13 |Work done 13-14 | 4.9 Swap |Parts for sale

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Raydar
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Report this Post08-28-2013 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by falcon_ca:


The mods are:
- Allante rocker arms rails
- Allante Starter
- 19LB. Fuel injectors. Rebuilt Design 3
- Throttle body spacer
- Intake and exhaust manifolds ported at gasket size
- Heads ported as well
- Delta CAM « 480 lift 205 duration »
- MSD Coil, Cap, cable and 6A
...


Interesting. I don't see any reason that it would run rich. (I have no experience with the cam. Don't know how it might act.)
The stock injectors are also 19 lb. I'm running the same ones as you are.
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falcon_ca
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Report this Post08-28-2013 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for falcon_caClick Here to Email falcon_caSend a Private Message to falcon_caEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I thought I had a problem with the TPS, it shows 44% at .86 Volts (idle) with Tunerpro, so I bought a new one. Same thing

I am also not able to solve the 5 mph problem even after executing the "Idle learn procedure" many times.

I will have to take a look to the wiring.

------------------
"I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

Work done 07-08 | Work done 08-09 | Work done 09-10 | Work done 10-11 | Work done 11-12 | Work done 12-13 |Work done 13-14 | 4.9 Swap |Parts for sale

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NJD85GT
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Report this Post08-28-2013 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NJD85GTSend a Private Message to NJD85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do not worry about the throttle % in TunerPro, it is not correct. Just look at voltage, my idle voltage is usually around 0.7 V if I remember correctly, and 4.5 WOT.

If you are having high idle issues while driving, this was my problem:
I was having a problem where it didn't want to slow down when you take your foot off of the pedal. I re-did the idle learn procedure without much help, it would still do it about 2/3 of the time. As I was test driving and watching my laptop / PCM data, I noticed that the closed throttle switch wasn't always closed at idle. So I took the ISC motor apart and cleaned it, it is very simple inside. After cleaning it, my idle issue was much better.

So make sure your closed throttle switch triggers when you take your foot off the gas. This is how the PCM knows you want idle speed.

Nate

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1985 GT | 4.9 Allante | M17/MY8 Hybrid 4-Spd Muncie | '88 GT Cradle Swap

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falcon_ca
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Report this Post08-29-2013 06:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for falcon_caClick Here to Email falcon_caSend a Private Message to falcon_caEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks NJD85GT I'll check the closed throttle switch activities even if my ISC is new.

Do you know what is the parameter I should look at in TunerPro RT? edit: Found

------------------
"I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

Work done 07-08 | Work done 08-09 | Work done 09-10 | Work done 10-11 | Work done 11-12 | Work done 12-13 |Work done 13-14 | 4.9 Swap |Parts for sale

[This message has been edited by falcon_ca (edited 08-29-2013).]

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NJD85GT
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Report this Post08-29-2013 07:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NJD85GTSend a Private Message to NJD85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I bought a new ISC motor and had two old ones and they all had issues. The switch worked fine when cold, but after the engine warmed up it had intermittent contact.
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falcon_ca
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Report this Post09-01-2013 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for falcon_caClick Here to Email falcon_caSend a Private Message to falcon_caEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No problem with the ISC idle switch.

------------------
"I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

Work done 07-08 | Work done 08-09 | Work done 09-10 | Work done 10-11 | Work done 11-12 | Work done 12-13 |Work done 13-14 | 4.9 Swap |Parts for sale

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falcon_ca
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Report this Post09-04-2013 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for falcon_caClick Here to Email falcon_caSend a Private Message to falcon_caEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found the final answer about having a 93 ECM and a 91 memcal

If your memcal is a 91, wire your engine as a 91 whatever the ECM is.

------------------
"I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

Work done 07-08 | Work done 08-09 | Work done 09-10 | Work done 10-11 | Work done 11-12 | Work done 12-13 |Work done 13-14 | 4.9 Swap |Parts for sale

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