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Modifying Intake manifold with Brazing instead of welding by zkhennings
Started on: 08-13-2013 05:24 PM
Replies: 20 (2782 views)
Last post by: zkhennings on 08-19-2013 01:12 PM
zkhennings
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Report this Post08-13-2013 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am doing something similar to the DAWG modification on my upper intake manifold, but I only have a MIG and I have near a full tank of C25 and don't want to buy another tank of pure argon. Plus I have never welded aluminum let alone cast aluminum... So I was wondering if brazing is a realistic solution to this or would it be prone to cracking and breaking? UIM doesn't see much heat or structural load so I can see this maybe being a possibility. I have MAPP gas torch so it burns hotter than propane but not as hot as Oxy...

I guess also how much would it cost to get a pro to do this (from those that have had welders weld things for them).

My other solution would be to get my friend with a synchrowave TIG to weld it, but he has never welded cast aluminum either (he is good at regular aluminum though)

Or get him to essentially spot weld it and then I can fill in the cracks with Brazing. Just throwing ideas out, let me know your opinions,

Zach
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trotterlg
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Report this Post08-13-2013 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry, brass won't stick to aluminum. Larry
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daveg
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Report this Post08-13-2013 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for davegSend a Private Message to davegEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did this last year with a spare upper intake plenum and paid $350 for a local shop to do the mod.

Dave
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fieroguru
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Report this Post08-13-2013 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You might try alumiweld... its an aluminum compatible brazing rod.
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trotterlg
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Report this Post08-13-2013 06:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have some of that stuff, it does seem to work. Larry
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BlackEmrald
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Report this Post08-13-2013 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlackEmraldClick Here to Email BlackEmraldSend a Private Message to BlackEmraldEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can't MIG aluminum without a spool gun anyway. I'd be interested to sew where this goes, as brazing is a perfect solution, if a good filler rod is found.
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Report this Post08-13-2013 09:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BlackEmrald:

You can't MIG aluminum without a spool gun anyway.


Sure you can. I have done all my aluminum welding with a ProMig 175 w/o a spool gun, just the $65 aluminum kit (feed wheels, liner, and tips). Now it is tricky to setup and requires focusing on welder and work placement to give the wire the straightest path, but it does work.
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tesmith66
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Report this Post08-14-2013 07:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I use this on aluminum. I get it at the local farm store.
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zkhennings
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Report this Post08-14-2013 10:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by trotterlg:

Sorry, brass won't stick to aluminum. Larry


Yea I was referring to aluminum brazing rods...

So do you guys think it would be strong enough?

And fieroguru I know it is not bad welding aluminum with a Mig, but have you tried cast aluminum? Just wondering what your opinion is on that.
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zkhennings
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Report this Post08-14-2013 10:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zkhennings

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quote
Originally posted by daveg:

I did this last year with a spare upper intake plenum and paid $350 for a local shop to do the mod.

Dave


Thanks for the info!

[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 08-14-2013).]

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zkhennings
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Report this Post08-14-2013 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zkhennings

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quote
Originally posted by tesmith66:

I use this on aluminum. I get it at the local farm store.


How well does it work? It looks interesting, says it is stronger than aluminum and requires no flux
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fieroguru
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Report this Post08-14-2013 10:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:


Yea I was referring to aluminum brazing rods...

So do you guys think it would be strong enough?

And fieroguru I know it is not bad welding aluminum with a Mig, but have you tried cast aluminum? Just wondering what your opinion is on that.


I did quite a bit of welding on cast aluminum on my 4.3L intake modification. The hard part is gettting all the pores in the cast aluminum clean and free of oxidation.
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zkhennings
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Report this Post08-14-2013 11:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This looks like a promising product
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TopNotch
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Report this Post08-14-2013 12:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:

This looks like a promising product


I have some -- it works great. The only problem is that aluminum is a very good conductor of heat, so your whole piece is going to be very hot by the time you finish the job. I tried repairing a water pump with the stuff, and it worked just fine, except that the bearing seals got too hot and were burned out. But for an intake manifold, it should be fine.
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BV MotorSports
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Report this Post08-14-2013 01:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have used a product called durafix with great success. I have used it when making aluminum hardpipes for intercoolers. It works fantastic!

http://www.durafix.com/

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 08-14-2013).]

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hiwil88formula
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Report this Post08-14-2013 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hiwil88formulaClick Here to Email hiwil88formulaSend a Private Message to hiwil88formulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had this done a few months back. Cost me $150 at a local shop, even kept the EGR.
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zkhennings
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Report this Post08-14-2013 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cool! Well that is great to know I can do it for a reasonable amount of money, is there any aluminum in particular I should use to bond better with the cast aluminum? Or will some standard like 1/8 inch sheet aluminum be fine?
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mcguiver3
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Report this Post08-14-2013 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had a local welder do my intake last year and he charged me $75 to weld it.
I did the prep and fitting of parts.
I did try it myself with a spool gun on my MIG but it was not enough amperage to properly weld the AL.
AL takes a lot of heat to weld and the manifold is thick. Takes a good size MIG to do the job right.

Bob
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zkhennings
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Report this Post08-15-2013 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mcguiver3:

I had a local welder do my intake last year and he charged me $75 to weld it.
I did the prep and fitting of parts.
I did try it myself with a spool gun on my MIG but it was not enough amperage to properly weld the AL.
AL takes a lot of heat to weld and the manifold is thick. Takes a good size MIG to do the job right.

Bob


What kind/ sized aluminum did you use for the added material? I am looking at 1/4 aluminum plate but it might be overkill
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mcguiver3
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Report this Post08-15-2013 11:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The first time I did it I cut off the intake snout from the side, blocked off the hole and drilled a 1 1/2" hole in the top of the manifold and welded the TB flange to the top of the upper intake manifold.
The second scenario was to mount a Camaro TB, so I had a 1/2" plate welded to another spare upper intake and drilled out for the air Intake and taped the 4 holes for the mounting screws. Both times the welder charged me $75, but I did all the fitting and setup. All he had to do was weld.

Bob
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zkhennings
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Report this Post08-19-2013 01:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have some of the HT-2000 Brazing rods on the way, I will do this modification in the next few weeks and I will post pics and steps on here.
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