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Sitting 15 years by f85gtron
Started on: 07-31-2013 05:24 AM
Replies: 68 (2300 views)
Last post by: f85gtron on 10-18-2013 04:56 AM
benoitmalenfant
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Report this Post08-31-2013 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for benoitmalenfantSend a Private Message to benoitmalenfantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:
And was this FOLDERS in my cup? - or BRIM to my rim?


I'm guessing you're asking what the coffee can is for?

It is the cruise control vacuum canister (or tank), number 5 in the diagram below. By the look of yours, I'm unsure if it can actually hold vacuum though... Will be worth replacing if you plan on having a working cruise control.




 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:
What does this ground lead join to? It's attached behind the air cleaner, along the wheel well....


Got me stumped there. I'm looking at my 87 and cannot find a ground wire by itself in this area. It looks like this wire was once soldered together and covered with shrink tube and it broke off...?

[This message has been edited by benoitmalenfant (edited 08-31-2013).]

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donuteater306
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Report this Post08-31-2013 09:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for donuteater306Click Here to Email donuteater306Send a Private Message to donuteater306Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the Folger's can is leaking, I found that on full size Ford Econoline vans, late 1980's - mid 90's an identical canister is mounted near the right front fender under the hood. Tons of those vans in junk yards. Enjoying reading about your progress. keep it up!
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f85gtron
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Report this Post09-02-2013 05:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by donuteater306:

If the Folger's can is leaking, I found that on full size Ford Econoline vans, late 1980's - mid 90's an identical canister is mounted near the right front fender under the hood. Tons of those vans in junk yards. Enjoying reading about your progress. keep it up!


Thanks! Right now, it holds vacuum, but I'm gonna hit the yard and see what I can find.
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f85gtron
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Report this Post09-02-2013 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I went through the ignition system with a fine toothed comb and, as it turns out, the ignition coil was good, but the connectors inside where bent too far, so I cut the top, bent the connectors back to where they should be, then siliconed it back together.
I sprayed starter fluid, and it purre ud like a kitten for a few seconds. I can't get it to run on it's own...just with starter fluid.
The fuel pump is priming, however it seems as though there is no pressure in the system. I'm guessing the regulator, how do I test it.
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Patrick
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Report this Post09-02-2013 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:

I can't get it to run on it's own...just with starter fluid.
The fuel pump is priming, however it seems as though there is no pressure in the system. I'm guessing the regulator, how do I test it.


Well, I'm guessing the short piece of rubber hose in the fuel tank has turned to goo. If so, I'm afraid you're going to have to drop the tank.
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benoitmalenfant
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Report this Post09-02-2013 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for benoitmalenfantSend a Private Message to benoitmalenfantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Well, I'm guessing the short piece of rubber hose in the fuel tank has turned to goo. If so, I'm afraid you're going to have to drop the tank.


Patrick could have your answer.

You mentioned earlier that you had pressure at the valve on the fuel rail?

To find if the the regulator is faulty you basically need to know if the pressure in the rail is good enough or too high/low or if it's holding or not.

These 2 charts should get you were you want:




------------------
Ben
87 GT / 88 GT
84 Indy #1863

[This message has been edited by benoitmalenfant (edited 09-02-2013).]

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f85gtron
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Report this Post09-03-2013 05:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That flow chart is awesome! Thanks! I had pressure when I first installed the pump, even then, it wouldn't start on it's own. I just need to get off my wallet and get a fuel pressure gauge! If they sold them at peir one and had a hand-painted bezel, my wife would already have one (she's the one spending money....i'm the cheapskate! )
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Patrick
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Report this Post09-03-2013 03:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:

I had pressure when I first installed the pump, even then, it wouldn't start on it's own.


I missed/forgot you had changed the fuel pump.

So, did you replace that short piece of hose in the tank? Clamp it securely?

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Well, I'm guessing the short piece of rubber hose in the fuel tank has turned to goo. If so, I'm afraid you're going to have to drop the tank.

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benoitmalenfant
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Report this Post09-03-2013 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for benoitmalenfantSend a Private Message to benoitmalenfantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:
That flow chart is awesome! Thanks!


The flow chart (and many others very useful) is in the service manual. If you want, you can download it directly from http://www.fieronews.net/


 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:
I just need to get off my wallet and get a fuel pressure gauge! If they sold them at peir one and had a hand-painted bezel, my wife would already have one (she's the one spending money....i'm the cheapskate! )


Well, maybe you can buy one, hand-paint it yourself, bring your wife (and the gauge) to Pier One, casually drop the gauge on one of those fancy tables in the store and convince her to buy it, then pocket the money!

[This message has been edited by benoitmalenfant (edited 09-03-2013).]

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f85gtron
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Report this Post09-05-2013 03:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by benoitmalenfant:


Well, maybe you can buy one, hand-paint it yourself, bring your wife (and the gauge) to Pier One, casually drop the gauge on one of those fancy tables in the store and convince her to buy it, then pocket the money!



Lol! Sounds like a plan! Looks like I'm on my way to getting my first fuel pressure tester!

I have a plan of action:
According to the flow chart, I'll pinch off the return line.... If pressure, bad regulator... If no pressure, drop tank AGAIN.
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f85gtron
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Report this Post09-12-2013 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
UPDATE: I haven't had time to mess with chasing down this fuel problem...but last night, I pinched off the fuel turn line and primed the pump.... NO PRESSURE! ugh! In my disgust, I stuck my bottom lip out, pouteda little bit, then hanging my shoulders low in defeat, it began to round up tools to drop the tank....AGAIN! WELL, wouldn't you know, I ran across the fuel line bands that I purchased to attach the pump...in the tank...but they weren't in the tank...uh...whu?
Ok, so I didn't install them on the line (apparently) and that would explain the sudden loss of pressure. Next time, I'll try to resist the urge to immediately come running when my wife rings the dinner bell!
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f85gtron
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Report this Post09-12-2013 08:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I dropped the tank tonight. The problem is the F(qbert)ing pump! It's running, but not pumping. This is the second pump I've installed in a row from the same company!
If anyone wants to know what pump NOT to buy.... TREPERFORMANCE TRE-366-2
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f85gtron
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Report this Post09-21-2013 05:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
UPDATE:
Got it running tonight! Yeah!
TREPerformance sent me ANOTHER replacement pump (to replace the pervious two duds I installed before) and it was a different model..much more solid and heavy. I installed into the tank, connected a power supply and pumped out a couple gallons before heaving the tank into position. A smile immediately starched over my down-trodden face... "THIS is the ONE", I thought to myself, as the new pump settled in and happily whirred in its' new home.
Wrestled the tank into place and connected it up...a feat that I can now do in about 15 minutes...including tool cleaning..., turned the key to prime, ran around to push the fuel rail valve to bleed air and about got my head blown off from the pressure! - then primed again and cranked.........
It caught within a few seconds...just a couple cylinders at first, then a couple more, then five for about 2-3 minuets....and now, the whole lot of em just firing away!
SWEEEEEEET, SWEEEEEEET MUSIC!
It hit about 1500 rpm for 5 min, then settled down to just under 1k, with barely audible hunting.
Not bad for 15 years of sitting!
Oh, and its still got the old gas in it too! I wonder what it will do with new gas? ...probably run worse!
Thanks for all you guys do! This forum is tops!
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f85gtron
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Report this Post10-01-2013 06:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I tried to move it, only to find out the stinker won't go into gear .....unless it's not running.
I bled a LOT of air and brown gunk out of the slave...but it kept getting air into it. After part-hunting and coming back empty handed, I decided to do the right thing, and order the dickman double seal slave kit. I went ahead and removed the slave and started to dsassemble and clean/hone it....damn, it was nasty! Brownsludge coated the bore and it only had half range of travel! Noooooooooooooo wonder I couldn't get the clutch to disengage! Yuck.
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Report this Post10-01-2013 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DLCLK87GTSend a Private Message to DLCLK87GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hello and welcome to the forum! I too just rescued a Fiero that’s was sitting for who knows how long. I was lucky enough to find one with 21000 miles on it and am in the process of getting the tank cleaned, I wasn’t so lucky with that. One thing that you need to make sure you do before you get it running, pull out the heater blower fan from the front firewall and the defroster element that’s right beside it. You want to make sure there’s no mouse nests, leaves or any other nasty stuff in there and shop-vac/blow it all out. Fieros have an electrical defroster next to the blower, think toaster element, and if there’s any crap in there you will add to the “those things catch on fire” legend/reputation. Only takes a few minutes and I’d hate to see all your progress go up in flames.
Edit to add...after that start replacing all the rubber bits and pieces, it will all have dry rotted. Start with important things like brake and fuel lines, then cooling, vacuum, suspension etc etc etc.

[This message has been edited by DLCLK87GT (edited 10-01-2013).]

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f85gtron
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Report this Post10-01-2013 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks DLCLK87GT. I'll be pulling the heater box cover off and inspecting today. It will give me something to do while i'm waiting on the slave kit.
I got lucky with rubber, in that, the p.o.kept it stored in his garage and already had purchased dew wipes and weatherstripping....i just had to install it all. Sfo, at least I don't have to worry about that part.

[This message has been edited by f85gtron (edited 10-01-2013).]

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f85gtron
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Report this Post10-08-2013 04:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
UGH! I've been having a hell of a time with this clutch! I got the slave worked out with the dickman slave kit, then bleed it really good......I STILL CAN'T GET IT TO RELEASE FULLY! I tried to inspect the clutch petal for warping, but nothing was obvious. i did however, find hints of fluid leaking from the clutch master. So, i guess I'll replace it and get the adjustable rod and banjo go with it..
QUESTION, How much travel should i be getting out of the slave piston on a Muncie 4 speed?
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Gall757
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Report this Post10-08-2013 12:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
1"

I have heard of 7/8ths being enough, but rarely.
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f85gtron
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Report this Post10-08-2013 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i think i just found some of my clutch problem! looks like the banjo is being played upside down! looks and feels like new bushings.... i guess that the p.o. got mixed up while upside down putting back together!

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Gall757
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Report this Post10-08-2013 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
nice photo. That's not easy to get.
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f85gtron
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Report this Post10-08-2013 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

nice photo. That's not easy to get.


lol...i had to make a choice... i couldn't get my head AND my phone up in there... (the phone is MUCH smaller than my already oversized head ).

i switched the banjo around and am now able to shift all forward gears with engine running, but first is a struggle and reverse is grinding still... so i have some more bleeding to do. ALMOST THERE !!!!
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Report this Post10-08-2013 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Being that it has sat for so long I would not be suprised you have a coating of rust on the pressure plate and flywheel. Just like brake rotors do. Causing the clutch disc to just touch a little. If you are getting decent extension of the slave cylinder this would seem likely. It MAY clean itself up just by using it. I would start in reverse with clutch pedal applied and keep ingaging and disingaging the clutch. Be easy when forcing into gear. The trans uses brass syncronizers to match the gears speed to the input shaft when clutch is released. If the clutch does not completely release, you are using the syncros to stop the input shaft. Reverse does not have one. Continued forcing can cause the syncros to wear quickly. This will in turn cause the gears to get sloppy and need internal work.
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f85gtron
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Report this Post10-08-2013 08:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
thanks for the explanation of how the gears sync with the brass..inn other words.. easy does it! i don't believe in slamming into gears anyways. i found a small leak from the clutch master inside the car, So i think I'll play it safe and order a master set from Rodney dickman and just do it right. I CAN'T WAIT TOO DRIVE IT! i can taste the fun!
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f85gtron
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Report this Post10-09-2013 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
change of plan. i found a rebuild kit on eBay an hour nugget bought it... GM OEM PART 18031467 AC DELCO 18G751 and will attempt a rebuild first..... I'm not sure if this kit is for the old or new style clutch master....we will see:/
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84fiero123
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Report this Post10-09-2013 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

You'll probably need calipers.
Fiero calipers are famous for locking up. (They have phenolic pistons that like to swell.) I'd probably go ahead and change them, anyway.

Before you crank it at all, remove the spark plugs and squirt a bit of oil (some suggest ATF, but I'm open to suggestion, here) into all the cylinders. Let it sit for a couple of days, and then turn it over.


Mystery oil is mine and was my Dads favorite when he was around for that, and before any oil change he would put a pint in the oil and run it for a while, half hour if I remember right before every oil change.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 10-09-2013).]

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f85gtron
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Report this Post10-17-2013 04:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i got the rebuild kit in, but i have changed direction again.... i took out the master to tear it down, and realized that the weeping i saw was from an old school bleed job i did that same day.... so it doesn't need rebuilt. but i tore it down anyway and honed it to prep it.. then, i opened the new parts..AND UGH!.,.WRONG PARTS!


so i reassembled the original back together and bench bleed.

the second thing i found was a bent clutch pedal. i removed it and bent it back. the funny thing is it's the updated part number with the small banjo pin...go figure....

i went to crank, after a good bleeding to test, but i left the door and trunks open too long and killed the battery AGAIN!
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Report this Post10-17-2013 05:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:

i got the rebuild kit in, but i have changed direction again.... i took out the master to tear it down, and realized that the weeping i saw was from an old school bleed job i did that same day.... so it doesn't need rebuilt. but i tore it down anyway and honed it to prep it.. then, i opened the new parts..AND UGH!.,.WRONG PARTS!


so i reassembled the original back together and bench bleed.

the second thing i found was a bent clutch pedal. i removed it and bent it back. the funny thing is it's the updated part number with the small banjo pin...go figure....

i went to crank, after a good bleeding to test, but i left the door and trunks open too long and killed the battery AGAIN!


If you end up needing a new clutch pedal to replace the bent one, I think that I have a brand new one somewhere in the basement that I bought to repair a car but sold the vehicle prior to the replacement.

Nelson
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f85gtron
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Report this Post10-17-2013 05:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
thanks. i may need it. i didn't feel real confident with how easy it was to bend the u thingy back into alignment. is obvious that the p.o. was in there at some point replacing things...which Leeds me to wonder if the banjo is the correct length?
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f85gtron
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Report this Post10-18-2013 04:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cmechmann:

Being that it has sat for so long I would not be suprised you have a coating of rust on the pressure plate and flywheel. Just like brake rotors do. Causing the clutch disc to just touch a little. If you are getting decent extension of the slave cylinder this would seem likely. It MAY clean itself up just by using it. I would start in reverse with clutch pedal applied and keep ingaging and disingaging the clutch. Be easy when forcing into gear. The trans uses brass syncronizers to match the gears speed to the input shaft when clutch is released. If the clutch does not completely release, you are using the syncros to stop the input shaft. Reverse does not have one. Continued forcing can cause the syncros to wear quickly. This will in turn cause the gears to get sloppy and need internal work.


yup, i think that's part of the problem. i charged the battery and my daughter and i installed it, then cranked it up. my boy covered his ears, started crying and ran into the house! After my daughter and i stopped laughing, mindful of what you posted, i let it roll backwards, then engaged reverse, nudged the clutch a few times and ran through a couple forward gears. by the time we ran through a couple stop signs, the clutch freed up and I've had full synchronization and disengagement every since!

The only real surprises from the maiden voyage are shifter alignment (too far too the left for selection..makes reverse and first close together) and a sticking front caliper. other than that.....steady as she goes!
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