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Dropping Engine Again, Need Some Advice by FieroJosh1993
Started on: 07-27-2013 01:50 PM
Replies: 26 (656 views)
Last post by: FieroJosh1993 on 09-01-2013 10:28 PM
FieroJosh1993
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Report this Post07-27-2013 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJosh1993Click Here to Email FieroJosh1993Send a Private Message to FieroJosh1993Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey everyone,

So in January I had to drop my engine because my cradle needed to be replaced. The car has been running great ever since. As of right now I am in School to get a two year degree in Automotive Technology. Starting August 19th I will be in an engine high performance class. We have to build or rebuild an engine. I want to rebuild my Iron Duke.

My question is,

Can I take the engine out the top? Just the long block. I dont want to have to drop the suspension again, it would be easier to just take the long block out the top. is this possible or am I not aware of a possible issue with doing it that way?/

Thanks,
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FFIEROFRED
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Report this Post07-27-2013 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FFIEROFREDClick Here to Email FFIEROFREDSend a Private Message to FFIEROFREDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
get a nother engine, do that one. leave your car together. Keep It Simple!
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post07-27-2013 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree with that. Then swap it in at your convenience. I Have taken the dukes out the top, BUT I don't recommend it. Alot easier and you're less likely to break things coming out the Bottom.
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trotterlg
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Report this Post07-27-2013 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, start with another engine, and, if you use the iron duke in a high performance class, you will probably get an F. Larry
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FieroJosh1993
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Report this Post07-29-2013 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJosh1993Click Here to Email FieroJosh1993Send a Private Message to FieroJosh1993Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I dont have the money or time to do a different engine. I am just planning on rebuilding the iron duke.

For the engine stand what size bolts does it take to bolt into the Iron Duke and where on the Iron Duke do i bolt it on?? A Picture would help.

Thanks
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MulletproofMonk
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Report this Post07-29-2013 11:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Josh,
1. Why would you take it apart if it is a running Duke?
2. The Duke is almost indestructible. I wouldn't rebuild it until it blew up.
3. You are throwing away money if you think you are going to build a performance Duke. The Duke is great at what it does, torque and MPG...
You can probably pickup a Duke for $100... Like this one: http://columbus.craigslist.org/pts/3937853144.html

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

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Gall757
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Report this Post07-30-2013 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Josh,
Don't have $100? Think again. When you finish rebuilding the Duke, you can decide to keep it or sell it. A rebuilt Duke has to be worth at least $500 to a forum member. So all you need to do is find an investor and agree on his payoff...say maybe 30% of the sale price... If you keep the motor you owe your partner some agreed-on amount like $120. Investors would love that return.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post07-30-2013 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your first Question, "where do I bolt the engine stand to" ? that would Worry me. if you take YOUR engine out, How long down time are you willing to go without a car ? Have to agree with the others, don't fix what isn't broken.
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FieroJosh1993
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Report this Post07-30-2013 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJosh1993Click Here to Email FieroJosh1993Send a Private Message to FieroJosh1993Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have to do it for class. its a required class for my degree. I want to rebuild my duke. New pistons, camshaft and crankshaft if it needs it. My school has all the tools to machine or re bor the cylinders. We take all the measurements of the crank shaft bearings. it will also be a good chance to replace all the gaskets. The Fiero Store has a rebuild kit for like $400. I am will to be without a car for a while. I just need to know where to bolt the Duke to the engine stand and what size bolts will I need to do so.
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steinke_phil
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Report this Post07-31-2013 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for steinke_philClick Here to Email steinke_philSend a Private Message to steinke_philEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a 2.8 out of an 86 sitting in my garage.

The car I pulled it from had around 40k miles. I was told that the oil light light turned on, he heard knocking, and he pulled over. He had it inspected and was told there was a spun bearing.

I haven't had the engine apart, I just pulled it and replaced it.

If you are interested, I would let it go for cheap. I was just going to pull a few parts and scrap it anyways.

PM/email me if you want more pics or info.

-Phil
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FieroJosh1993
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Report this Post07-31-2013 06:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJosh1993Click Here to Email FieroJosh1993Send a Private Message to FieroJosh1993Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sent u a pm Phil
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Report this Post07-31-2013 06:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by trotterlg:

... if you use the iron duke in a high performance class, you will probably get an F.


...
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FieroJosh1993
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Report this Post08-04-2013 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJosh1993Click Here to Email FieroJosh1993Send a Private Message to FieroJosh1993Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok I bought the V6 from Steinke_phil, Thanks again man.

So now my question is, which holes do I use to mount the engine to the engine stand, and is there a certain engine stand I need??

Thanks,
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MulletproofMonk
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Report this Post08-04-2013 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Phil and his bother Andy are good guys!
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trotterlg
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Report this Post08-04-2013 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Go to harbor freight and get the cheapest engine stand they have, it is way more than you will need for a Fiero. It will be easy to see what bolts you need for mounting, I am thiking they are M14's 1.5's but not sure, someon will tell you, they need to be about 4 inches long, you will need some washers to space them and one or two will need a nut on the end of it. Larry
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Report this Post08-04-2013 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For the extra $15 bucks, Get the "4 Leg" Engine stand, it's A lot "Safer",(I've seen And HAD 3 leg stands tip over), and you May want to use it on" something else" some day. If you Don't keep it, a 4 leg is easier to" resell" than a 3 leg.
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Report this Post08-04-2013 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So back in the 80s, my friend's dad built up a duke pretty good. I got the chance today to finally ask him about the modifications he made as the car has been garaged for the past few years and is finally registered again. He is a super smart guy, a mechanical engineer.

Here are the mods he has done:

Full roller rockers for a chevy v8

Very stiff valve springs, there is an inner and an outer. (The head has been machined a crapload)

Machined head, lots of portwork done

Head was decked to increase compression to around 10:1

HUMONGOUS custom cam, he said it has nearly .75 inches of lift. I asked him how the valves do not hit the pistons and he said the duration is relatively short and everything is timed so the valves are just getting out of the way when the pistons get close. (Don't call BS on me, this is just what he told me, and he put the cam in in the 80s so he might be remembering wrong, but he seemed pretty positive)

Custom harmonic balancer

Solid Lifters (flat tappet cam, it's an 84)

Holley intake

Holley Throttle Body

Holley Fuel pump

MSD Ignition Box, rev limiter set a little over 6000 rpms


He did a ton of work to that engine, it is all custom and the car is fun to drive and sounds really interesting, not very much like a stock iron duke. It is not crazy fast, he built it to autocross. It makes close to 135 horsepower, I am not sure if that is at the crank or the wheels, but it is almost as fast as my modified 2.8 (cam and portwork) with a super flat torque curve which is really what makes it fun to drive. Peak HP is around 5000 which is funny considering it is a duke, but the engine has 100,000 miles on it and has not grenaded yet.

It takes a ton of work and money to make a duke fun, and even then it is still not really fast. Just telling you what you can expect max from this engine. I don't think he could push it any farther safely.

Edit to say I see you bought a 2.8, take some time to port and polish the heads and intake and exhaust, at the minimum do the exhaust, it is easy and there is a noticeable difference. The stock manifolds are super crappy in stock form.

[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 08-04-2013).]

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FieroJosh1993
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Report this Post08-05-2013 08:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJosh1993Click Here to Email FieroJosh1993Send a Private Message to FieroJosh1993Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I was looking at the engine today. it looks like I have four possible bolt holes I can use on the flywheel side of the engine. I tried to order a engine stand from harbor freight yesterday but i got an error that says they dont ship to a po box address. I have had a lot of things shipped to my house from them.
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Report this Post08-06-2013 12:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroJosh1993:

I have to do it for class. its a required class for my degree. I want to rebuild my duke. New pistons, camshaft and crankshaft if it needs it. My school has all the tools to machine or re bor the cylinders. We take all the measurements of the crank shaft bearings. it will also be a good chance to replace all the gaskets. The Fiero Store has a rebuild kit for like $400. I am will to be without a car for a while. I just need to know where to bolt the Duke to the engine stand and what size bolts will I need to do so.


The bolts are normally the same size as the bellhousing bolts used on the engine. You can normally use the same bolts however, on some stands you need to use aout a 4" bolt for the bottom holes with a nut to hold it.

Arn
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Gall757
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Report this Post08-06-2013 08:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How can they put an engine stand in a PO box?....
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post08-08-2013 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On "ANY" engine, you use the bolt holes that were holding the trans to the engine.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post08-08-2013 02:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Lou6t4gto

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The engine stand has adjustment on the ARMS, just make sure to get the "center" of the "Crankshaft" lined up with the "swivel pipe" part of the stand (so the engine will be "centered" and not hard to turn around) (a little grease on that pipe Before you assemble the stand will be of help also) Also, make sure the flywheel "Clears" the stand bolts ( you may have to use "washers")
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Report this Post08-08-2013 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DamorganClick Here to Email DamorganSend a Private Message to DamorganEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would love to do some performance mods to my 2.8...Im just not familiar with machining at all
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Report this Post08-08-2013 02:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Damorgan:

I would love to do some performance mods to my 2.8...Im just not familiar with machining at all


Check out pff-er LaFiera's build on cardomain, He has the ultimate Fiero 2.8 in my opinion (Naturally aspirated, Boretti has the ultimate in turboed 2.8s)
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FieroJosh1993
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Report this Post08-29-2013 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJosh1993Click Here to Email FieroJosh1993Send a Private Message to FieroJosh1993Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey guys, just wanted to update you all on my progress.

I have all the internal stuff out of the block. next Thursday it is going into the thermal oven and then the shot oven.

Only things that I could find that would be considered bad was, 2 main bearing where on their last breath. Very close to being spun. One rod bearing was in the middle of being spun. Other then that, everything looks really good.
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retroman
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Report this Post08-30-2013 02:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for retromanClick Here to Email retromanSend a Private Message to retromanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Congrats on the find!! If you need or want any spare 2.8 parts, pm me. I would give them to you for the cost of shipping. I just swapped in a 3.4 and am using its DIS and intake as well so I don't have much use for most of the old 2.8 stuff. I am getting out of the military and moving back to the mainland in a few months. I need to get rid of it, so either I give it away or sell it for its weight in scrap. Personally, I'd rather help out a fellow enthusiast and see some of my parts live on, than melt them down and deplete the Fiero parts pool. Just a heads up though, I have tried to protect the old 2.8 engine block and the parts I removed from it, but even with my precautions, it has been sitting out in the elements for 11 months, so it might need some cleaning.
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FieroJosh1993
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Report this Post09-01-2013 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJosh1993Click Here to Email FieroJosh1993Send a Private Message to FieroJosh1993Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok thanks man, I'll let you know. Not sure what im going to need just yet. wont be going to school til Thursday, with the holiday on Monday and then Tuesday the school is closed. I'll try to remember to take some pics Thursday and post them for you guys.
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