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Rear camber problem by CodeSlinger
Started on: 07-12-2013 01:39 PM
Replies: 20 (922 views)
Last post by: carbon on 07-16-2013 03:26 PM
CodeSlinger
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Report this Post07-12-2013 01:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CodeSlingerClick Here to Email CodeSlingerSend a Private Message to CodeSlingerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just got new wheels/tires and I'm having the car aligned. The guy told me that the left rear camber is not within specs. My car is at -.3 but spec is -1.3 thru -.8, so I'm half a degree out of spec. He said that since there's no adjustment for this, they typically elongate the strut mount holes to bring it in. Wants to charge me $100 to do it.

First question: is this a hack?

Second question: since I just got new tires, should I get this fixed?

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Report this Post07-12-2013 01:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jb1Click Here to Email jb1Send a Private Message to jb1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
camber bolts at local parts store. $10-15

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(series II swap in progress)
85GT Northstar
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CodeSlinger
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Report this Post07-12-2013 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CodeSlingerClick Here to Email CodeSlingerSend a Private Message to CodeSlingerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jb1:

camber bolts at local parts store. $10-15



I dont think it's about the hardware, he said that the strut wont come out to that position and that he had to elongate the holes that the strut mounts in. Does that make sense?

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carbon
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Report this Post07-12-2013 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by CodeSlinger:

Just got new wheels/tires and I'm having the car aligned. The guy told me that the left rear camber is not within specs. My car is at -.3 but spec is -1.3 thru -.8, so I'm half a degree out of spec. He said that since there's no adjustment for this, they typically elongate the strut mount holes to bring it in. Wants to charge me $100 to do it.

First question: is this a hack?

Second question: since I just got new tires, should I get this fixed?



Unless your car is damaged/modified in some other way, that is a hack and somebody is fishing for money. Take your car somewhere else. The most you need are the adjustable camber bolts.

If my source is correct...
Spec is -0.3 to +1.3 - Preferred is +0.5 for the front
Spec is -0.5 to -1.5 - Preferred is -1.0 for the rear

Fiero camber is adjusted by pivoting the knuckle/strut connection via a slotted hole at the bottom not the three small strut mounting bolts at the top.

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 07-12-2013).]

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zkhennings
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Report this Post07-12-2013 02:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Also the stock struts are already slotted, mine were at least, so If you go home with the car, break free the rear camber strut bolts, and see for yourself if they are slotted. If the struts are really seized to the knuckle, soak in pb blaster until you can get them loose, then either bring it back or go somewhere else. I recommend the camber bolts though, it makes the alignment guys shut up because they always complain about changing the camber without them.
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jb1
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Report this Post07-12-2013 03:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jb1Click Here to Email jb1Send a Private Message to jb1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by CodeSlinger:


I dont think it's about the hardware, he said that the strut wont come out to that position and that he had to elongate the holes that the strut mounts in. Does that make sense?



the camber bolts are flat on the side and allow more adjustment.. no need to cut holes larger or spend $100..

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(series II swap in progress)
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plane
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Report this Post07-12-2013 03:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for planeClick Here to Email planeSend a Private Message to planeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Guy is a hack. I run camber plates, but only because I need -3+ for racing. I get 0 to -2.2 from the stock camber bolts on the lower part of the strut. (1987 GT)
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CodeSlinger
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Report this Post07-12-2013 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CodeSlingerClick Here to Email CodeSlingerSend a Private Message to CodeSlingerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jb1:

the camber bolts are flat on the side and allow more adjustment.. no need to cut holes larger or spend $100..



Ahhh, now I understand why you were saying to get the camber bolts But from the looks of the specification, -.3 is ok then? I'm replacing the shocks/struts soon anyway so I can put the camber bolts in at that time I guess.

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fierosound
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Report this Post07-13-2013 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
All struts will have a slotted lower hole for camber adjustment.
Is he saying the strut is at its limit and he needs to lengthen the slot?



You want this type of Camber adjusting bolt.
NAPA PN NCP2643609
Spicer PN 6161014



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Report this Post07-14-2013 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by CodeSlinger: He said that since there's no adjustment for this...

Not true. As was mentioned already, the rear suspension does in fact have camber adjustment built in. But your alignment tech is apparently not aware of that. Chances are you probably don't even need to purchase camber bolts. You just need to dislodge the alignment tech's head from his butt.
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Report this Post07-14-2013 12:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jon mSend a Private Message to jon mEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your garage tech is trying to rob you blind. -.3 is within specs ideal is -1

stick with us mate - we all help each other on here

jon
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Report this Post07-14-2013 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

"Unless your car is damaged/modified in some other way, that is a hack and somebody is fishing for money. Take your car somewhere else. The most you need are the adjustable camber bolts."

unless 1 side of the car is lower than the other, bad spring, low tire, rusted frame, there is No reason that the stock struts can't be put into spec. find a different shop ! I had that happen to me, the shop said they couldn't set the camber on the front. I took it home, wife "timed it", 7 minutes from the time it left the ground till it was done! The people in the shops are either un qualified hacks or just Lazy ! they DO "Charge you" anyway, whether it's done right or Not !
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AL87
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Report this Post07-14-2013 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
you may have some sort of damage...

I bought the camber bolts for my gt, and adjusted to max negative camber....

rear left was at -.5 I ended up using a ratchet strap with the bolts loosened to pull the strut in, nothing was bent, just... IDK...

its like the frame was out or something... but everything is good now.

I have the fronts at -2 and the rears are both somewhere in between -1 and -1.25

btw... adjusting front camber is a b-otch...
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Mr.Goodwrench
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Report this Post07-14-2013 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mr.GoodwrenchClick Here to visit Mr.Goodwrench's HomePageClick Here to Email Mr.GoodwrenchSend a Private Message to Mr.GoodwrenchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I aligned mine yesterday. You just have to loosed the bolts and push or pull the wheel to the specs then tighten them up
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CodeSlinger
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Report this Post07-15-2013 09:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CodeSlingerClick Here to Email CodeSlingerSend a Private Message to CodeSlingerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did talk with the guy who runs the Firestone shop (not the guy who did the alignment) when I went to pick up the car. He told me that 'slotting' them was a standard and approved/recommended procedure (in general, not just for Fieros). AND I just bought new 17" wheels/tires for the car and the mechanic puts on the alignment form "large tires will cause handling problems" or something to that tune. REALLY? Tell me how these cute little wheels cause a problem (needless plug to show off...couldn't resist)



I bought new shocks/struts a couple months ago and I'm going to put them on soon, so I'll take a look at what's going on then. Is there a good resource for installing the shocks and struts? I've done shocks, but no struts before.

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[This message has been edited by CodeSlinger (edited 07-15-2013).]

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CodeSlinger
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Report this Post07-15-2013 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CodeSlingerClick Here to Email CodeSlingerSend a Private Message to CodeSlingerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by AL87:

you may have some sort of damage...

I bought the camber bolts for my gt, and adjusted to max negative camber....

rear left was at -.5 I ended up using a ratchet strap with the bolts loosened to pull the strut in, nothing was bent, just... IDK...

its like the frame was out or something... but everything is good now.

I have the fronts at -2 and the rears are both somewhere in between -1 and -1.25

btw... adjusting front camber is a b-otch...


What did you ratchet to/from?

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cmechmann
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Report this Post07-15-2013 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For a while there were replacement struts late 80s early 90s that were not slotted.
I prefer slotted holes. Some of the Camber Correction Bolt kits work by having a smaller diameter bolt.
If they can get it around -.5 on the rear, leave it alone. More than that is not needed unless you intend on racing. To get the tire to (bite) more in corners.
This helps the grab a little but at a cost of tire wear.
As far as the different rims and tires. As long as the scrub radius(the area that the weight is pushed down to) is close to the stock area you are OK.
Rim offset and diameter are important here.
If you make a straight line down from the strut to where it contacts the road, (the angle the spring tension is pushing down)would be considered the scrub radius. It should be somewhere in the middle of the tire. If you don't change the offset and increase the diameter, the scrub radius falls further out causing a more roll like feel. In the opposite side(depending on tire width and offset), the scrub radius can land further in. Causing a more sliding out like feel.
However if that angle falls near the stock area, you just have to worry about clearance.
I'm using 215/55/16, which end up almost the same outside diameter as the stock tires and rims. That and only with a 10mm difference in offset, I ended up with the same handling. Except with a much better tire. I can go up to a 215/65/16 and still stay in a very safe range. If I went to 17s, I could go wider, but I don't really need it. I do drive in wet conditions, so going to a 50/45 series starts to have a hydroplane issue. Plus I like to have a little more side wall. 35/40 series feels like your riding on the rims
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cmechmann
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Report this Post07-15-2013 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry about the rewrite.
Reading a bit more carefully.
Did you say they wanted to elongate the mounting holes at the top of the strut?
NEVER do that. Only for struts that don't support spring weight. Like 82-late 90s Camaros and Mustangs. Those are already elongated by the factory, just have to pop out the factory rivets.
On a spring loaded strut tower. DON'T DO IT.
And the ones that are, have a reinforced plate in the strut tower and don't have mounting bolts at the bottom(like a Ford Taraus) Fieros don't (just a standard GM strut tower top)
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Report this Post07-15-2013 09:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierologySend a Private Message to FierologyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My $0.02:

I put KYB's on mine. The lower bolt hole was not slotted enough to adjust much camber. It had enough movement to be within spec but not to get a more aggressive w/in spec camber. In that case increasing slot would be a legitimate and appropriate way to get more negative camber. It would only be necessary because my after-market parts have a shorter slot.

Also, I agree that your mechanic sounds sketchy. increasing slot size is okay. His reason... I'm not sold.

-Michael
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AL87
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Report this Post07-16-2013 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by CodeSlinger:


What did you ratchet to/from?




I wrapped the ratchet strap around the subframe, and to the pivot point between the strut and knuckle/spindle.
ratcheted tight so negative camber could be achieved. tightened camber/strut bolts and then loosened ratchet strap.
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carbon
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Report this Post07-16-2013 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by AL87:


I wrapped the ratchet strap around the subframe, and to the pivot point between the strut and knuckle/spindle.
ratcheted tight so negative camber could be achieved. tightened camber/strut bolts and then loosened ratchet strap.


Yup... otherwise you could be/are fighting the spring wanting to stay straight at the edge of adjustment and trying to tighten the bolts at the same time.
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