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AC update from old freon to new stuff? by xquaid
Started on: 07-11-2013 11:00 AM
Replies: 18 (509 views)
Last post by: steve308 on 07-24-2013 06:16 AM
xquaid
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Report this Post07-11-2013 11:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for xquaidClick Here to visit xquaid's HomePageSend a Private Message to xquaidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hello again everybody,

My AC went out on my Fiero about 2 years ago and I never bothered to fix it.

It has the original coolant (from 1980's).

Is it costly to take my car to a shop and have them "convert" or "update" the AC to the new modern system and Freon?

Roughly how much would I be looking at here? Where do you suggest I take my car?

Thanks!
- Justin

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Old Lar
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Report this Post07-11-2013 11:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After two years all sorts of things may be bad with the AC. The compressor, moisture, the drier etc. The system needs to be evacuated at least. Unless you have to tools to do the job, best to take it to a shop.

After several attempts over 10 years doing repairs , installing remanufactured compressors, used compressors etc. I threw in the towel and had the entire system replaced with new components by a shop. $1300 later it has worked for several years.
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xquaid
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Report this Post07-11-2013 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for xquaidClick Here to visit xquaid's HomePageSend a Private Message to xquaidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Old Lar:

After two years all sorts of things may be bad with the AC. The compressor, moisture, the drier etc. The system needs to be evacuated at least. Unless you have to tools to do the job, best to take it to a shop.

After several attempts over 10 years doing repairs , installing remanufactured compressors, used compressors etc. I threw in the towel and had the entire system replaced with new components by a shop. $1300 later it has worked for several years.


$$$!!! Man that is more than I wanted to hear

Does it matter that the AC worked fine all the way up to 2011 then stopped? Not sure if this could mean it simply ran out of Freon?

Or is this one of those problems best left to the pros like you are saying?
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trotterlg
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Report this Post07-11-2013 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First thing to do is check to see if it has any pressure in it at all. If it does then life is better. You would need to get rid of the freon that is in it if there is any. Then fill it with the new stuff with the proper oil in it. Never know, it may just run when you do that. Larry
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TopNotch
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Report this Post07-11-2013 01:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by xquaid:

Where do you suggest I take my car?



To your own garage. Do it yourself -- save LOTS of money!
I rebuilt the AC on two Fieros -- both will freeze you out of the car.
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TWright
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Report this Post07-11-2013 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TWrightClick Here to Email TWrightSend a Private Message to TWrightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did you use R12 or R134 to get the AC that cold?
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ChadMan
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Report this Post07-11-2013 08:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ChadManClick Here to Email ChadManSend a Private Message to ChadManEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Justin, would you be interested in some R12? I have three cans of R12 I need to get rid of. I am into Miatas now (though I still lurk here from time to time) and don't think I'll ever need R12 again. PM me if interested.
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deceler8
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Report this Post07-11-2013 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for deceler8Click Here to Email deceler8Send a Private Message to deceler8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If any of you have a Menards in your area...they're selling R134 for $3.99 a can.

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BlackEmrald
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Report this Post07-11-2013 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlackEmraldClick Here to Email BlackEmraldSend a Private Message to BlackEmraldEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by deceler8:

If any of you have a Menards in your area...they're selling R134 for $3.99 a can.



That's a really good price. It goes for about $15 an lb over here.
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dematrix86gt
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Report this Post07-12-2013 08:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dematrix86gtClick Here to Email dematrix86gtSend a Private Message to dematrix86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Atwoods sells 134a for $4.35 a can here. sams is 5 bucks and local parts stores are $17.00 a can. and at that price they wont price match it either. lol go figure!
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-12-2013 09:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Purchased a 30lb canister at Sams Club last month for $75.00. That's $2.50 per pound. The R-134A cans contain only 12 ounces.
Properly done a retro R-134a conversion can be made to blow ice cold.

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Report this Post07-12-2013 09:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Properly done a retro R-134a conversion can be made to blow ice cold.



100% agree!

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xquaid
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Report this Post07-22-2013 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for xquaidClick Here to visit xquaid's HomePageSend a Private Message to xquaidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ChadMan:

Hey Justin, would you be interested in some R12? I have three cans of R12 I need to get rid of. I am into Miatas now (though I still lurk here from time to time) and don't think I'll ever need R12 again. PM me if interested.



ChadMan,

Thank you for the offer on the Freon. I think I am going to try the Menards route @ $3.99 a can!

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xquaid
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Report this Post07-22-2013 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for xquaidClick Here to visit xquaid's HomePageSend a Private Message to xquaidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

xquaid

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Member since Dec 2007
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Properly done a retro R-134a conversion can be made to blow ice cold.



Dennis LaGrua,

So what exactly takes place in a "R-134a conversion"? Is this something I can do at home? (I have plenty of tools) Not sure if I need "special" tools.

Thanks,

Justin

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steve308
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Report this Post07-22-2013 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
At the least you will need to change the orifice tube and the accumulator and install the proper 134 pressure switch - Rock Auto is your friend for these parts. Walmart- Sams- Zone-Advance all sell a 'conversion kit'. (Inter-dynamics is the kit) It will include the two conversion fittings up to three cans of 134 refrigerant (1 can includes oil -1 can includes a stop -leak and dye) -update tags and a how to DVD is usually included. (Parts and Kit under $200.00) It's advisable to flush the system (but not the compressor) and pull a vacuum to look for leaks and remove moisture. (Most part stores have a vac pump you can rent) When I did mine I changed out the parts, pulled the vac which did indicate a slow leak. I filled the system and ran the car for a few days until it was no longer cold and then took out the uv light and found a leak in the lines under the car. I had new lines made (carry in the old) did a re-vac because the system was opened - refilled with 134 and it's cold and has been for two years. If your compressor detonated and if you find a "tarry" residue on the orifice tube AKA Black Death the system from a-z is toast.

[This message has been edited by steve308 (edited 07-22-2013).]

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Report this Post07-23-2013 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ill have to disagree with some of you. 134, even factory in a new car isnt even close to being as cold as old R12. In a Fiero, it may be better because its so small. My Fieros with R12 blew cold enough to keep drinks cold all day on drives by placing them in front of the vents. My Magnum, Sebring and Mustang NEVER get as cold as my 70 New Yorker did. With the recent hot spell, I even had the Sebring checked the other day because it wasnt cold enough. System was full and working perfectly according to the dealer. Blowing full blast on recirculate, inside never got below 80-85 on a 95* day. The New Yorker could get down to 60 inside on the same day...and it was 3 times as big inside. While a correctly done update may be cool enough, it still dont compare with R12. If I had a car with R12, I always kept it full of R12.

If it hasnt run in 2 years, Ill almost guarantee the compressor seals are shot. I run AC in a car a few minutes a month at least even during winter.
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Report this Post07-23-2013 03:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First thing you should do is figure out why it stopped. Maybe the compressor clutch is dead, or relay or even wiring (is the belt even on there and didn't break or so loose that it is slipping)? Could be low on R12, if so then you probably have a leak and it may need to be rebuilt/replaced.

It could be something simple, but you don't know unless you check it out - then go from there...
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Report this Post07-23-2013 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dematrix86gtClick Here to Email dematrix86gtSend a Private Message to dematrix86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had a 87 nissan pathfinder (play rig) got bored one day and just put on a adapter and shot 134a into the system. didnt change a thing. that was 6 years ago. current owner said bout once a year you got to add a can but still blows ice cold. also got a service sheet last year informing of used car dealers putting Liquid propane in AC systems . it listed others as well but what caught my eye was Freeze12 sold as R12 but cheaper. consists of 90% 134a / 10% R12 so why they tell you it wont mix when it does and ive done it several times since.
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steve308
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Report this Post07-24-2013 06:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Freeze 12 - no longer made - propane, well it does explode. Lot's of things will work BUT they are not OEM or MACS or REBUILDER approved. I have used Freeze 12 in the past. It had working pressures close to standard Freon BUT when it leaked, the different gases leaked at a different rate and the cooling ability was compromised. PLUS it's primarily 134A so it proved ineffective in the long run as the 134 leaked out leaving only the HCFC142 (not 12!) and HCFC142 is not efficient in mobile cooling. A huge concern is service. Repair shops could have their equipment destroyed if they were to evacuate an unknown blend or propane into the repair equipment. If the ac system in a vehicle is in good solid working commission many products will work but the OE group only has approved 134A for the R12 replacement for good reasons. It appears that change is on the way again to a new refrigerant but it may not retrofit to older vehicles. Nothing cools like the original R12 but in our little two seat toys a 134A charge into a properly converted system will keep you cool. PS. in vehicles with orifice tubes a "variable orifice tube" makes a noticeable difference BUT it cost a lot more $1.00 VS $13.00
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