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coolant going straight out by Robert 2
Started on: 07-09-2013 06:17 PM
Replies: 29 (486 views)
Last post by: Robert 2 on 07-25-2013 09:26 PM
Robert 2
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Report this Post07-09-2013 06:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When i fill by the back cap on the engine it goes staight out by the overflow in front ?????
Took the compression 150 all over the place .
Seem like there is a cylinder not working .
Put air in cylinder on the trunk side no bubble showing .
Now i'm at the firewall side .
The fun begin .
Could it be a head gasket ???
Engine running but shaky at idle .
Checked the injectors last week OK.
Ajusted the spark plugs .
New cap new wiring new rotor new pickup coil
new connector on the ICM changed the throttle body , with one that i had cleaned last winter .
Was not leaking until yesterday
No sign of overheating even with a gallon and a half missing .
Been searching for a month over .

Help Help please
Is it better to drop the cradle to do a head gasket repair ?
Thanks
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Report this Post07-09-2013 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are you sure the front cap is good?
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Dave E Bouy
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Report this Post07-09-2013 06:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dave E BouyClick Here to Email Dave E BouySend a Private Message to Dave E BouyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would start by replacing the cap on the radiator. Thats the only way coolant can get through into the overflow tank when filling at the back.

DF
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Robert 2
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Report this Post07-09-2013 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For the coolant that was right on Thank you . The cap wasn't tight enough , don't know why i never touch this one when refilling . what a mechanic !
Now for the remaining of the topic ?
I pressurized the 3 trunk cylinders 5-3 no leak # 1 i could hear the air coming out fhe exhaust an feel some air coming out near the EGR tube
thing is that i had it undone and checked it by filling with water and no leak was detected ( don't know if its a good way to check though?)
Tommorow i'm gonna do the 3 others cylinders .!@#$&*() Lol .

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 07-09-2013).]

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trotterlg
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Report this Post07-09-2013 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That would sound like a burned exhaust valve, but it could be that is just isn't seated well, test a little more. Larry
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Robert 2
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Report this Post07-09-2013 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Forgot to say that it's backfiring too .When i took off the egr and the tube it was almost blocked with sooth
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trotterlg
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Report this Post07-09-2013 10:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That would be normal. Larry
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Robert 2
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Report this Post07-10-2013 07:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You mean normal when having a burnt valve ?
Hope that is the only one it's on the trunk side so not too bad
The engine has around 8,000km since rebuild .
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Robert 2
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Report this Post07-10-2013 07:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Robert 2

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double post

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 07-10-2013).]

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Indiana_resto_guy
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Report this Post07-10-2013 07:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Indiana_resto_guyClick Here to Email Indiana_resto_guySend a Private Message to Indiana_resto_guyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Robert 2:

When i took off the egr and the tube it was almost blocked with sooth


 
quote
Originally posted by trotterlg:

That would be normal. Larry


This is what he meant in that phrase I believe.
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trotterlg
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Report this Post07-10-2013 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, the blocked by carbon part. Larry
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Report this Post07-10-2013 10:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pressurizing the 3 trunk cylinders is supposed to do what? This is not a compression check.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post07-10-2013 10:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The engine idles rough - do you have the plug wires in properly?
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Report this Post07-10-2013 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pressurizing the cylinders is a very good way to figure out what is wrong, you can listen in the exhaust to tell if it is a burned exhaust valve or the intake to check for intake valve problems. You can tell if it is leaking into the water jacket or to another cylinder. Larry
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Robert 2
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Report this Post07-10-2013 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

The engine idles rough - do you have the plug wires in properly?


Yes , i unplugged them so many times to check the plugs and compression .
Last week i undid the whole top to check the injectors .
But i'll check it again tommorow , dont feel like working on it today .

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 07-10-2013).]

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Robert 2
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Report this Post07-10-2013 01:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Robert 2

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quote
Originally posted by trotterlg:

Pressurizing the cylinders is a very good way to figure out what is wrong, you can listen in the exhaust to tell if it is a burned exhaust valve or the intake to check for intake valve problems. You can tell if it is leaking into the water jacket or to another cylinder. Larry


Thinking of it, the leak was on # 1 cylinder in the intake .
I'll check the three back ones tommorow thanks
Robert


When the engine stop not all valves are closed so the intake leak on # 1 could be that the intake valve is on open position and the other # 3-5 were with both valves closed ??????????

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 07-11-2013).]

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Robert 2
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Report this Post07-12-2013 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When the engine stop not all valves are closed so the intake leak on # 1 could be that the intake valve is on open position and the other # 3-5 were with both valves closed ?????????

Found today the answer to this.
I started the engine to move the car and pressurized the # 1 cylinder and this time no leak both valves were closed .
Now for the three firewall side ones how can i figure in advance if both are closed before doing the hassle of taking out the plug , put the adapter , connect the compressor hose to it ??

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 07-12-2013).]

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Report this Post07-13-2013 12:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can look at where the dirtributator roter is pointing, it will point to the cylinder with the closed valves. Larry
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Robert 2
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Report this Post07-13-2013 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks never tought of it , that make sense .
I'll keep on posting during my investigation .
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blacknotchback86
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Report this Post07-13-2013 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blacknotchback86Send a Private Message to blacknotchback86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Robert 2:

When the engine stop not all valves are closed so the intake leak on # 1 could be that the intake valve is on open position and the other # 3-5 were with both valves closed ?????????

Found today the answer to this.
I started the engine to move the car and pressurized the # 1 cylinder and this time no leak both valves were closed .
Now for the three firewall side ones how can i figure in advance if both are closed before doing the hassle of taking out the plug , put the adapter , connect the compressor hose to it ??



1)pull the valve cover and rotate the engine at the crank till valves are closed is best way to do it..

2)you should see if you can get a leak down tester to test valves and seals. but do not think it is needed.

3)from what your saying it sounds like a vacuum leak? rough idle is a good sign there is a vacuum leak.

4)the over fill part i think you solved right? if there was a gasket issue most of the time a head gasket leak will blow the sides off the radiator meaning the plastic sides from the pressure created. so it sounds like there is no problem with the head gaskets.

5) so i would look for a vacuum leak or connect a vacuum gauge and check vacuum pressure?
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Report this Post07-13-2013 05:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blacknotchback86:

pull the valve cover and rotate the engine at the crank till valves are closed is best way to do it..


That might be the "best way to do it", but have you pulled the valve covers on a 2.8 V6? Not exactly a two minute job.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-13-2013).]

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Report this Post07-13-2013 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blacknotchback86Send a Private Message to blacknotchback86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
totally right . but i don't think it the problem i think he should skip that step altogether meaning worrying about the head gaskets valve leaks etc.... and should concentrate on looking for some thing simple like a spark plug wire on the wrong cylinder or at the cap. or even a vacuum leak those are more likely the cause. most of all with what was said. like he said he stopped the leak but has a rough idle? and all cylinder are 150 psi or some thing along these lines? then you read the part on the back rear of engine one was leaking in to the exhaust? and he changed the plugs and wires. one thing make me think he did not rotate the crank shaft when doing the test making me think the head gaskets are fine... and pulling the valve cover is not needed. same with the leak down tester why go threw the trouble. when it most likely some thing simple like said spark plug wire vacuum leak? any ways good points being brought up....
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Report this Post07-13-2013 08:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blacknotchback86Send a Private Message to blacknotchback86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From the haynes fiero manual for your problem/s


skip the valve ones and the head gasket ones for now till you are sure the small stuff is done right..



#8 engine lopes or idles erratically

1) vacuum leakage
2) leaking egr or plugged pcv valve (chapters 1 and 6)
3) air filter clogged see chapter 1
4) fuel pump not delivering or insufficient fuel being delivered see chapter 4.
5) leaking head gasket see chapter 2
6) timing chain and or gear worn see chapter 2
7) camshaft lobes worn see chapter 2

#15 engine back fires

1) emission system not functioning right see chapter 6
2) ignition timing in correct see chapter 1
3) faulty secondary ignition system (cracked spark plug insulators or bad wires cap rotor ..)
4) fuel injection system in need of adjustment or worn excessively. See chapter 4
5) vaccum leak at fuel injectors ,intake manifold, or vacuum hoses. see chapter 4
6) valves sticking see chapter 2
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Robert 2
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Report this Post07-14-2013 12:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From the haynes fiero manual for your problem/s


skip the valve ones and the head gasket ones for now till you are sure the small stuff is done right..
#8 engine lopes or idles erratically

1) vacuum leakage no leak pcv valve (chapters 1 and 6) no
2) leaking egr or plugged no
3) air filter clogged see chapter 1
4) fuel pump not delivering or insufficient fuel being delivered see chapter 4. 40
5) leaking head gasket see chapter 2 not finished awaiting order LOL
6) timing chain and or gear worn see chapter 2 8000 KM
7) camshaft lobes worn see chapter 2 8000 KM

#15 engine back fires

1) emission system not functioning right see chapter 6
2) ignition timing in correct see chapter 1 correct
3) faulty secondary ignition system (cracked spark plug insulators or bad wires cap rotor ..) cracked spark plug insulators or bad wires cap rotor ( all new )
4) fuel injection system in need of adjustment or worn excessively. See chapter 4 Checked good spray pattern
5) vaccum leak at fuel injectors ,intake manifold, or vacuum hoses. see chapter 4 no leak at vacuum or hoses all checked with vacuum pump
changed all vacuum line
6) valves sticking see chapter 2 same as # 5 in first chapter

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 07-14-2013).]

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blacknotchback86
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Report this Post07-14-2013 03:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blacknotchback86Send a Private Message to blacknotchback86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Robert 2:

From the haynes fiero manual for your problem/s


skip the valve ones and the head gasket ones for now till you are sure the small stuff is done right..
#8 engine lopes or idles erratically

1) vacuum leakage no leak pcv valve (chapters 1 and 6) no
2) leaking egr or plugged no
3) air filter clogged see chapter 1
4) fuel pump not delivering or insufficient fuel being delivered see chapter 4. 40
5) leaking head gasket see chapter 2 not finished awaiting order LOL
6) timing chain and or gear worn see chapter 2 8000 KM
7) camshaft lobes worn see chapter 2 8000 KM

#15 engine back fires

1) emission system not functioning right see chapter 6
2) ignition timing in correct see chapter 1 correct
3) faulty secondary ignition system (cracked spark plug insulators or bad wires cap rotor ..) cracked spark plug insulators or bad wires cap rotor ( all new )
4) fuel injection system in need of adjustment or worn excessively. See chapter 4 Checked good spray pattern
5) vaccum leak at fuel injectors ,intake manifold, or vacuum hoses. see chapter 4 no leak at vacuum or hoses all checked with vacuum pump
changed all vacuum line
6) valves sticking see chapter 2 same as # 5 in first chapter


your not really meant to check it with a vacuum pump your got to use a vacuum gauge like this one at this link below sold at most auto part stores. if it is a naturally aspirated engine it will make it own vacuum from the down stroke of the pistons... intake stoke .. any ways here is the vacuum gauge you need to have the car running wile testing it and then hook it to a vacuum line


or you can make a smoke tester with a simple cigar and a air compressor to test for vacuum leaks look up" testing vacuum leaks with a smoke pot, or vacuum smoke test" it will blow smoke threw all the hoses and you will see smoke rising threw some vacuum lines if they are not fully connected or gasket tight enough. i know there are you tube video on the smoke test just got to find them... it either that or a egr or emission system problem those are the only two that are the same on the two lists vacuum and emission system problems. any ways look up the tester and see which is cheaper for you not even sure you can use a vacuum gauge on a fiero? would have to look it up to find what the pressure should be .. some car make a specified amount of vacuum some cars don't so the smoke test is better for those cars that do not make the specified amount. you can tell i work on a lot of car to even know that smoke test exist


any ways those test are just for what it could be not what it is that the problem in number 8 and 15 i would go over them i think you said your getting 40 psi is that sitting or running ? for the fuel how is it wile running with fuel gauge connected like what number do you get?


these gauges will help diagnose any problem with a car..

vacuum gauge:

http://www.summitracing.com...i2rrgCFapDMgod5EoA4Q

fuel pressure gauge:

http://www.summitracing.com...anm-cp7818/overview/

leak down tester use to diagnose valve problems:

http://www.summitracing.com...sum-900010/overview/

compression tester:

http://www.summitracing.com...sum-900009/overview/

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blacknotchback86
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Report this Post07-14-2013 04:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blacknotchback86Send a Private Message to blacknotchback86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i would double check the fuel pressure 40 psi is a tad low for the 2.8L v6 key on engine off test should read 47 psi to 40.5 psi in that range. now when the car runs it will drop 5-10 psi 30-35 psi which seems unusually low to me is why i looked it up. if that is 40 psi your reading there change the fuel filter and retest pressure. that or it is feeding back to the tank and the fuel pressure regulator is a problem. also that and could be the fuel pump ..which some times is not the problem most of the time it is the fuel filter instead of the pump. that is why i say retest with clean filter in place. this will give a better reading . i think my mpi v6 2.8 read 45 psi key on engine off . if that gives a clue and if you read that list above it says it will cause problems in numbers 8 and 15 erratic idle and back fire. i hope this is the problem and it fixes it for ya best of luck to you....
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Robert 2
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Report this Post07-15-2013 10:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I changed the fuel filter .
Didn't change anything i'm at 35 PSI running .
Won't play with that for awhile getting a second eye surgery tommorow first didn't work .
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Report this Post07-16-2013 04:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blacknotchback86Send a Private Message to blacknotchback86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Robert 2:

I changed the fuel filter .
Didn't change anything i'm at 35 PSI running .
Won't play with that for awhile getting a second eye surgery tommorow first didn't work .


wish you the best on the surgery there is the fuel pressure regulator some times these go bad and leach gas back in to the tank threw the fuel return line. there is a soft line under the car you can squeeze shut with some thing like vise grip locking pliers or a pair of hose clamp pliers. this will cause the fuel to go up in pressure if the fuel pressure regulator is bad. any ways some thing to check when well again. like said i wish you luck on the surgery!
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Robert 2
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Report this Post07-20-2013 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you blacknotchback86

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 07-20-2013).]

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Report this Post07-25-2013 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
your not really meant to check it with a vacuum pump .


iI checked every line separatly ( this is what i meant ) puting my finger at one end and applying vacuum on the other end and checked if the pressure was coming down for every line i put back on .
Today i tested the damper to see if it has moved on the rubber , put #1 on top dead and adjusted the damper at zero and looked into the distributor to see if it was on # 1 was right on if you calculate you have to back up 10 Degrees .

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 07-25-2013).]

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