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Integrity of rear wheels/suspension with drive train removed. by hcforde
Started on: 07-08-2013 07:44 PM
Replies: 9 (229 views)
Last post by: hcforde on 07-09-2013 11:37 PM
hcforde
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Report this Post07-08-2013 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hcfordeClick Here to Email hcfordeSend a Private Message to hcfordeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I need this info for a number of different reasons. In removing the 1.complete drive train, 2.just the engine or 3.just the transmission are there varying degrees of the stability of the wheels. I heard in another thread that the removal of the drive train creates major issues.
 
quote
.."rolling the car with the rear wheels on the ground and axle stubs removed will destroy the hub bearings. Even short distances like rolling it out or into your garage. So, just rolling the rear up onto a dolly or trailer could destroy them."
Is this true is ALL cases? The car that I am concerned with immediately has had the engine and trans removed from the top with the cradle and suspension left untouched and intact. Is there a way to support the wheels so this does not occur? I was thinking wheel dollies but that is good only if you are staying on a flat surface. How would you get it on a trailer without doing damage if this is true.

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Raydar
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Report this Post07-08-2013 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You will need to get the appropriate bolts, nuts, and washers, and install them through the hubs. This is exactly what Held Automotive does with their drop front spindles. They use rear hubs with big bolts through them. The nuts are tightened to 100+ ft lbs. (Please let others back me up. I've never done this. Just heard of others doing it.)
Once the correct bolts are in and tightened correctly, the car can be rolled anywhere. For any distance.
Without the bolts, I've seen them come apart in less than 100 feet. The car fell on the ground.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-08-2013).]

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Bloozberry
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Report this Post07-08-2013 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Here is what Raydar is talking about with the large bolt running through the hub to hold the two halves together (note that in normal circumstances the axle and axle nut serve the same purpose). Also, if you're just planning to roll the car around then 100 lbft of torque is plenty, but if you're planning on towing the car on public streets then you need to torque the bolt to 200 lbft.



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hcforde
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Report this Post07-08-2013 10:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hcfordeClick Here to Email hcfordeSend a Private Message to hcfordeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK, That is easy enough. A bolt, nut and a couple of washers. Thanks. Any idea of how large the bolt should be? I would like to match it to the spindle size as much as possible. It looks like they put a small weld on theirs to make sure it stayed together. I just need to be able to roll this onto a trailer and take it somewhere to tear it down to the bare bones, so I would like everything to be in working order when I get back home.
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pdemondo
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Report this Post07-08-2013 11:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pdemondoClick Here to Email pdemondoSend a Private Message to pdemondoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had have used a bolt for a Fiero rear hub/bearing assembly. I used this to replace a failed assembly in a held front knuckle.
If you are using this assembly for a held setup, you will need to shave the head of the bolt to fit.

Using this in the rear you, obviously do not have any celarance problems so you can use a "non-modified" bolt.
I used a 1-inch bolt, I forget the length. I think it was around 7 or 8 inches long.
I used a lock washer with the bolt and nut and did not weld it. Welding would probably be a good idea.
You will probably have to go to a specialty nuts and bolts store to find it.
Just take a hub/bearing assembly with you to the nuts and bolts store and the match will be easy.
You also need to make sure the nut/washer/lock washer will fit inside the end of the assembly.

I also have attempted to tow a fiero, that did not have the axles installed. The wheels came off, going down the interstate.

If you are just putting the car on and off a trailer, welding the nut will probably not be necessary.

I have put about 15,000 miles, or more, on my car with just a lock washer, washer, and bolt. (rear hub on front) and have had no problems.

[This message has been edited by pdemondo (edited 07-08-2013).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post07-08-2013 11:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:
... if you're just planning to roll the car around then 100 lbft of torque is plenty, but if you're planning on towing the car on public streets then you need to torque the bolt to 200 lbft.


Okay. I thought that I had heard 200, but it sounded awfully high. I chose to err on the side of caution.
Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-08-2013).]

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Jfrost
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Report this Post07-08-2013 11:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JfrostSend a Private Message to JfrostEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I learned the hard way, left the wheel bearings alone after the engine/trans/axles were removed. This is what happened from just rolling it 10-15 in/out of the garage for about a year:



The two halves completely separated and these were low mile original bearings, about 68k on them. Kinda disappointing.

BTW....this is my 700th post!
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trotterlg
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Report this Post07-09-2013 12:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't think you need to go to 200 ft pounds especially if you go with a fine thread bolt. Most anything would hold it together for 50 feet. I would put a bolt through it and just lean on a 18 inch breaker and call it good. Larry
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theogre
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Report this Post07-09-2013 01:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
get any used axle... Junk all but outside CV joint "shell"...
Is a Ready make part to save hubs.
Pop that in and put washer and nut, done.


I have them on my parts car.

If moving in a garage etc... just torque enough so hub bearing can't barf a race.
Towing a car, even to a junk yard... torque to spec, 183-208 lb.ft. per GM SM

OE bearing has ball bearing that's easy to hose. Just moving in a shop can F them w/o cv/bolt to "preload" them.
Aftermarket is harder to mess up but towing will lose a wheel.
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hcforde
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Report this Post07-09-2013 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hcfordeClick Here to Email hcfordeSend a Private Message to hcfordeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just happen to have 4 1" bolts that are 7 " long................I just have to remember where I put them. I bought them for a greenhouse foundation build that got replaced by other projects that had to be done before I could build the greenhouse. Now the greenhouse plans are completely different so the bolts are free to use. I did go the Lowes and the biggest I saw there were 3/4". The axles sound like a good thing to have in the tool arsenal, "just in case". I won't need them for a while but I am getting all the stuff I will need when I do this tear down and transport.
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