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Getting close, need help from experts- 3800SC harness by Lou6t4gto
Started on: 07-05-2013 07:32 PM
Replies: 26 (534 views)
Last post by: Lou6t4gto on 07-13-2013 02:23 PM
Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post07-05-2013 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Getting close, a few more that I can't find in Ryan's charts.
keep in mind it's a 1997 SC harness and 1998 computer

ALTERNATOR
"L" goes to #61 on clear plug
"S" goes...... ?
"F" goes ........?

SC BY PASS SOLENOID:
"A" to #77 clear
"B" to .......?


OBD2 PLUG
#9 to #15 blue plug
#14 to...........?
#16 to hot fused
#8 to ....?
both #4+5 to block ground

AC Compressor plug
where does the green wire pin to ?

TEMP SENDER
"C" on the plug goes to what pin ?

AC Line
"B" to where

EVAP solenoid
"B" + "C" ?

Then there's another 3 pin plug (yellow insulator)with a red, black and yellow wire (Don't know what it's for). black goes to ground, red and yellow ???

And "Last" but surely not least,
On the IGN CONTROL PLUG
"B" is "supposed to go ( according to Ryans chart), to pin #53, it Can't, because "B" goes about 2 feet then "splits" into 2 wires, 1 going to the Cam sensor "C", and the other going to the Crank sensor "D". WHAT am I doing wrong ???? HELP ! Getting too old for this, Wife thinks I'm crazy! Surely appreciate the help.
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Report this Post07-05-2013 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

Getting close, a few more that I can't find in Ryan's charts.
keep in mind it's a 1997 SC harness and 1998 computer

I assume this means you are wiring it an a 1998 harness... And will answer based on the 1998 chart...

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
ALTERNATOR
"L" goes to #61 on clear plug
"S" goes...... ?
"F" goes ........?

L to (clear) C2-61, you can eliminate the other two

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
SC BY PASS SOLENOID:
"A" to #77 clear
"B" to .......?

A to (clear) C2-77
B to C203-K

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
OBD2 PLUG
#9 to #15 blue plug
#14 to...........?
#16 to hot fused
#8 to ....?
both #4+5 to block ground

2 to (blue) C1-59
4 to GROUND
5 to GROUND
9 to (blue) C1-15
16 to POWER, 12v constant

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
AC Compressor plug
where does the green wire pin to ?

You need to build a relay. It will go from the compressor to the relay

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
TEMP SENDER
"C" on the plug goes to what pin ?

C to C500-C2

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
AC Line
"B" to where

Are you talking about "B" on the A/C pressure sensor? If so,
B to (clear) C2-34

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
EVAP solenoid
"B" + "C" ?

Digital EVAP should only have an A/B. Do you mean the EGR?
EVAP is
A to C203-K
B to (blue) C1-76

EGR is
A to (blue) C1-32
B to (blue) C1-31
C to (clear) C2-28
D to (clear) C2-33
E to (clear) C2-4

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
Then there's another 3 pin plug (yellow insulator)with a red, black and yellow wire (Don't know what it's for). black goes to ground, red and yellow ???

I have to think on this one. Okay, thought on it. Is this your MAF? I forget the shape because I run a NorthStar. If it is the MAF:
A to (blue) C1-13
B to Ground (my notes say this wire is black/white)
C to C203-F (my notes have this as pink, not red. Same difference to me.)

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
And "Last" but surely not least,
On the IGN CONTROL PLUG
"B" is "supposed to go ( according to Ryans chart), to pin #53, it Can't, because "B" goes about 2 feet then "splits" into 2 wires, 1 going to the Cam sensor "C", and the other going to the Crank sensor "D". WHAT am I doing wrong ???? HELP ! Getting too old for this, Wife thinks I'm crazy! Surely appreciate the help.


Your wife is probably right... But that aside...

Are you plugging directly into the harness, or are you using the adaptor? If using the adaptor, you only need to worry about:
A to (blue) C1-54
B to (blue) C1-53
C to (blue) C1-9
D to (blue) C1-8
E to C500-C3 (this is your Tach Signal)
F to (blue) C1-7
G to (blue) C1-48
H to C500-E3

Hope this helps...

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

[This message has been edited by MulletproofMonk (edited 07-05-2013).]

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quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
Getting close, a few more that I can't find in Ryan's charts.
keep in mind it's a 1997 SC harness and 1998 computer



ALTERNATOR
"L" goes to #61 on clear plug
"S" goes...... ? orange +12v unswitched (I use the same feed as Pin 20 Blue -- A 10A fused line from the power distribution posts)
"F" goes ........? wack it off

SC BY PASS SOLENOID:
"A" to #77 clear
"B" to .......? C203 K Pink


OBD2 PLUG
#9 to #15 blue plug (not needed)
#14 to...........? not used
#16 to unswitched fused (Again same as pin 20 Blue)
#8 to ....? not used
#4 to relay ground
#5 to clean (PCM) ground
#2 to Pin 59 Blue (Needed)

Use different ground spots for the Blacks (relay/power ground) and the Black/Whites (sensitive grounds) (PCM, MAF, OBD2)

AC Compressor plug
where does the green wire pin to ? A/C Relay Green

TEMP SENDER
"C" on the plug goes to what pin ? C500 C2 (assuming 85+)

AC Line Wnat A/C line?
"B" to where

EVAP solenoid The EVAP solenoid has a two pin connector so there isn't a C on it.
"B" + "C" ?

Then there's another 3 pin plug (yellow insulator)with a red, black and yellow wire (Don't know what it's for). black goes to ground, red and yellow ??? No idea

And "Last" but surely not least,
On the IGN CONTROL PLUG
"B" is "supposed to go ( according to Ryans chart), to pin #53, it Can't, because "B" goes about 2 feet then "splits" into 2 wires, 1 going to the Cam sensor "C", and the other going to the Crank sensor "D". WHAT am I doing wrong ???? HELP ! Getting too old for this, Wife thinks I'm crazy! Surely appreciate the help.

Ryan was referring to the 8 pin plug of the engine harness to the ICM harness. He is never referring to the 14 pin connector on the ICM. Also you are referring to the wire from pin N of the 14 pin connector ( you are starting on the wrong end)

ICM wiring - Ignore the PCM pins since this is for a different PCM

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 07-05-2013).]

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post07-06-2013 01:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think I'm close! That "diagram" helped me figure out the problem with "B" on the ign. I swapped "B" & "N" somehow (both being light colored with a stripe) the wires are so discolored it was hard to tell. Yes, I should have done 1 at a time.
On the part of the harness that has the EGR, AC, MAP, there is a "Gang" of pink wires with 1 leading out, where does That Go ?
also, same for the harness for the INJECTORS, (the Pink "Common" ?) THANKS ALOT !

before I even think about "Wrapping" this thing, I will "go over" everything at least 1 more time, ( But not tonight) Again, thank you !
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Report this Post07-06-2013 06:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It would be impossible to identify the proper place to connect a 'gang of pink wires" without knowing where they run to.

The injector pinks splice together and run to Pin J C203.

I would have the engine running before I taped up the harness.
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Report this Post07-06-2013 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1fast2m4Send a Private Message to 1fast2m4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

I would have the engine running before I taped up the harness.


I agree, a few pieces of tape, enough to keep the wires neat and allow you to run the motor up to temp before you to a "Final" tape up & loom.

------------------
1986 SE 3800SC/4t65eHD (12.871@104.96) I'll Sell it if you like
1985 GT 3800SC (swap in progress)

[This message has been edited by 1fast2m4 (edited 07-06-2013).]

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Report this Post07-06-2013 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
On the part of the harness that has the EGR, AC, MAP, there is a "Gang" of pink wires with 1 leading out, where does That Go ?
also, same for the harness for the INJECTORS, (the Pink "Common" ?) THANKS ALOT !

I don't think that is your A/C, more likely the TPS. EGR pin D, MAP pin C and TPS pin C all get put together at (clear) C2-33. I think the wire was gray though.

All injectors go to C203-J for the 12v power.

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
before I even think about "Wrapping" this thing, I will "go over" everything at least 1 more time, ( But not tonight) Again, thank you !


Use a VOM (Volt-Ohm-Meter) to verify everything. Print the sheet and check it off.
Then wrap it! You had the nards to tackle it on your own, knock it out of the park!

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post07-06-2013 12:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 1 gang of pink IS the AC line, the EGR, the O2, the evap solenoid. then has 1 wire leading off to "Pin".
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Report this Post07-06-2013 01:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Also, I pulled the wires for the Oil Pressure sender, knowing that the Fiero one requires a 3 wire setup. How To ?? ( I'm going to "T" in a mechanical Gauge, but I'd like the original one to work also).
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Report this Post07-06-2013 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
The 1 gang of pink IS the AC line, the EGR, the O2, the evap solenoid. then has 1 wire leading off to "Pin".


The AC clutch is usually Dk. Green and Black. Sometimes it is Dk. Green and Gray. The Black or Gray of the clutch goes to ground

The AC pressure sensor is Black, Red/Black and Gray.

What colors are on this connector you are calling A/C

The EGR colors are varied. None of the EGR colors wire to +12v switched WHEN USING A 98-02 PCM. You have to wire the EGR, using the LETTERS of the connector, according to Ryan's 98 - 02 sheet. The 97 wiring does have EGR pin E going to switched +12. 98 - 02 does not.

The O2 sensor has Purple, Tan, Pink and Black. The Pink of the O2 sensor goes to switched +12v

The Evap Solenoid has a pink wire that runs to switched +12v

When making the harnesses I always cut the spices apart. Because the wires run in the wrong direction, the spices won't allow you to route the harness correctly. The injectors run the wrong way. The switched +12v leads run the wrong way. Cut the splice, route the wires the correct way, resplice where you need to. Usually what I do is splice longer wires onto the Pink and then have the major splice of all the Pinks to C203 pin K inside of the firewall bulkhead conector.

Use a 88+ style oil pressure connector. If you use a 4 pin connector it gives you the option of using either the 3 pin Fiero 0 - 80 oil pressure sender/oil pressure switch, or the 4 wire 98 Bonneville 0 - 120 oil pressure sender/oil pressure switch.



Per the pin letters cast into the body of the oil pressure sender connector

A - Top - Tan (Fiero color) or Tan/Black (3800 olor) - To C203 Pin E
B - Bottom - Black - To engine ground
C - Right in this picture - Orange/Black (Fiero color) or Red (3800) - Unswiched fused power from the fuse box - C203 - B
D - Left in this picture - Tan;/White (Fiero color) or Gray (3800) - To Fuel Pump

Some don't like the idea of wiring up the oil pressure switch back up to the fuel pump relay. I do. If the fuel pump relay were to fail, the engine would still start, however it would require some cranking before it would build up oil pressure, turn on the switch, and then build up fuel pressure. As long as you notice if this were ever to happen and then know to check the relay/oil pressure switch, there is no down side to hooking up the switch unless the switch were to fail closed. If you didn't notice you would be running on the switch solely which could then prematurely wear out the contacts it the switch.

If the fuel pump relay were to fail and you don't have the back up switch wired, you would be stranded.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 07-06-2013).]

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post07-06-2013 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the EGR does have E run to the gang of other pink wires.( what do I do? , cut it off and re run it ? , to where? )
The AC sensor I'm talking about is RED and gray (well used to be, now it's tan).
The pink from the O2 sensor goes to the gang of pink wires to 12 volts, (but where?)
OK, I'll get an '88+ style switch for the oil pressure, (run what wires for that to where ?).
MAF sensor, where is the pin for PCM "power feed" ?
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post07-07-2013 07:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes cut the EGR pin E wire from the power wires and run it per Sinister's sheet.

You will need the 3 pin AC pressure sensor connected up for the A/C to work. If you don't have the 3 pin pressure sensor you will need to get one. The switch connector you have now won't be used.

HO2S Sensor 1 heater D connect to Pin K of Fiero C203 connector, share with other components; change INJ2 fuse to 20amp

A - Top - Tan (Fiero color) or Tan/Black (3800 olor) - To C203 Pin E
B - Bottom - Black - To engine ground
C - Right in this picture - Orange/Black (Fiero color) or Red (3800) - Unswiched fused power from the fuse box - C203 - B
D - Left in this picture - Tan;/White (Fiero color) or Gray (3800) - To Fuel Pump

MAF sensor Ignition Power C connect to Pin F of Fiero C203 connector, share with PCM IGN power feed circuit
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Report this Post07-07-2013 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
MAF sensor, wire "C" goes about 2 feet from the plug, then splits into 2 wires ! Is the 2nd wire needed ??
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Report this Post07-07-2013 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Says "SHARE with PCM IGN power feed circuit". What dat ? LOL
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Report this Post07-07-2013 10:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

MAF sensor, wire "C" goes about 2 feet from the plug, then splits into 2 wires ! Is the 2nd wire needed ??


When making the harnesses I always cut the spices apart. Because the wires run in the wrong direction, the spices won't allow you to route the harness correctly.
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Report this Post07-07-2013 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

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Member since Dec 2009
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

Says "SHARE with PCM IGN power feed circuit". What dat ? LOL


MAF sensor pin C - Ignition Power C to Pin F of Fiero C203 connector, share with PCM Blue 19

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 07-07-2013).]

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post07-08-2013 12:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I should pin BOTH "C" wires, 1 to C203 and the Other one to Blue 19 ?
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Report this Post07-08-2013 10:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You have an automatic don't you.

You also need a speedo buffer. You can either buy on (from me) http://www.reddevilriver.com/Related_Products.html or make one

The speedo buffer also needs to be tied to C203 pin F

So there are three things that will connect to C203 pin F.

Your question - Can you use the splice at the MAF sensor to send the voltage back to the PCM? Yes that would work. That also isn't how I would do it. Running from C203F to the MAF sensor pin C and then sending it back to the PCM Pin 19 Blue means your sending it out and then back. It make the wiring more complex and does so unnecessarily.

So I would cut out the splice on the pink wire of the MAF sensor and resplice it to have only one wire run to the three wire splice that connects to C203 pin F.

The other two wires that need to be in that splice are PCM pin 19 Blue and the Speedo Buffer.
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Report this Post07-08-2013 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll definitely be getting 1 of those from you. Is it included in your harness w/ the auto option ? How much do you charge to "set up" the PCM for this ? the ICM" Harmess", is that set up for the "STOCK location ?
Looking at your prices, I'm sick I ever started this ! If I can't get it to work, You are definitely #1 for me to buy from. Thanks
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Report this Post07-08-2013 05:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm doing the Trans now. I Have all of Wires Except, there is" No reference" on any of the "charts" for letter "M" (black wire) from the Trans Plug.
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post07-08-2013 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Actually I include the speedo buffer on both MT and AT harnesses if I know the PCM is programmed for the proper incoming PPM.

If I don't know then on MT harnesses I leave it off.

The stock ICM harness will reach to allow the coil pack to be mounted on the front firewall easily, IF you leave enough on the 8 pin connector engine harness side to allow the ICM harness to be stretched in that direction.

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

I'm doing the Trans now. I Have all of Wires Except, there is" No reference" on any of the "charts" for letter "M" (black wire) from the Trans Plug.


PCM Blue - 56 blk sensor ground output connect to → TPS:A; ECT:A; MAP:A; IAT:A; A/C Press:A; EGR:B; 4T60E:G; 4T65E:M

From the Sinister PDF
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Report this Post07-09-2013 01:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is a 3rd "Plug" on the Trans, Labeled from A-G. (don't know what it's "Called"). where do A-G go ? Thanks
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Report this Post07-09-2013 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Lou6t4gto

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going to the bone yard now to get a 3 or 4 wire Oil Pressure PLUG. Wish there was a Fiero there to get a 203 and 500 off of.
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Report this Post07-09-2013 11:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On the trans, there's the 1 big plug, the selector plug, and a 3rd one. the 3rd one has letters "A"- "G" . Where do these wires get pinned to ? and what IS that plug for ? (Speedometer ?) not knowing what it is called, I don't know what to look for on the wire diagrams. thanks
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Report this Post07-10-2013 01:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

On the trans, there's the 1 big plug, the selector plug, and a 3rd one. the 3rd one has letters "A"- "G" . Where do these wires get pinned to ? and what IS that plug for ? (Speedometer ?) not knowing what it is called, I don't know what to look for on the wire diagrams. thanks


http://www.gmtuners.com/fil...E-4T65E_range_sw.pdf
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post07-10-2013 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you !
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post07-13-2013 02:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
PIN "G" trans Selector ? to what pin ? It's not on Ryans' diagram. Thanks
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