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Clutch bleeding issues by Jfrost
Started on: 07-02-2013 03:18 PM
Replies: 15 (443 views)
Last post by: Jfrost on 06-27-2014 09:01 AM
Jfrost
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Report this Post07-02-2013 03:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JfrostSend a Private Message to JfrostEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Trying to bleed the clutch on my 86 GT and having no luck, car won't fully go into gear. At times I can get it into 3rd, but I hear the clutch disk spinning with the pedal fully engaged. Car is an L67 swap, 4 speed Muncie, Clutchnet disk and pressure plate, brand new throwout bearing, new RD master and slave cylinders, new Fierostore stainless clutch line. I was using RD speed bleeder to get all the air out and I've now gone through 1.5 large brake fluid bottles. I tried adjusting the banjo on the master, gravity bleeding, bleeding the slave by retracting the arm, etc. Car shifts into all gears fine with the engine off, so I don't think its an issue with the cables or shifter. Clutch pedal doesn't look bent, and the shift arm on the trans looks straight. Before removing the stock 2.8 the car was driveable and at times wouldn't go into gear when coming to a stop, but I believe that was due to the old parts I replaced. All that stands between me and driving the car is figuring out the clutch and finishing the exhaust.

I'm almost at my wits end trying to figure this out, what else could be causing the issue?
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GM Shane
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Report this Post07-02-2013 03:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GM ShaneClick Here to Email GM ShaneSend a Private Message to GM ShaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've been going through a lot of the same issues, with similar equipment. Including the fact that it shifted pretty good before the swap.

I was able to get the car to shift perfectly for a couple of days by jacking the left front corner about three feet in the air, the left rear corner about two feet in the air and leaving it like that for about three days before bleeding it again. It worked for a while, but then went away.

Here's my thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...8114-2.html#lastpost

Maybe you can get some inspiration from it.
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Jfrost
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Report this Post07-02-2013 05:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JfrostSend a Private Message to JfrostEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the link, I'll try some of those suggestions out. After skimming through it my big concern now is I may have installed the clutch disc backwards. Is there any way to tell for certain without removing the trans?
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doublec4
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Report this Post07-02-2013 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How new/old is your clutch?

I had the exact same set up (with a Spec3 clutch) and it recently started doing exactly what you describe. I ended up switching over to the F23 getrag, but when the old tranny came out, the clutch was toast. The springs were popping out. Is your clutch old?
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Jfrost
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Report this Post07-02-2013 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JfrostSend a Private Message to JfrostEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

How new/old is your clutch?

I had the exact same set up (with a Spec3 clutch) and it recently started doing exactly what you describe. I ended up switching over to the F23 getrag, but when the old tranny came out, the clutch was toast. The springs were popping out. Is your clutch old?


Its a brand new clutch and pressure plate from Clutchnet
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Rodney
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Report this Post07-02-2013 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Some hipo clutches require less push (arm rotation) to disengage them and more throw makes them drag. Put it in gear with the engine off and rock it back and forth while pushing the clutch in a little at a time. Worth a try at least.

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Jfrost
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Report this Post08-11-2013 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JfrostSend a Private Message to JfrostEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've bled it a few more times and still no luck. The clutch pedal sits at least an inch above the brake, the travel at the slave pushrod is at least 1.5" if not more. The pedal feels softer than it did when I first started bleeding, not sure if thats just the pressure plate breaking in or not. Occasionally I'll get a few air bubbles out but I would think I'd gotten all the air out by now: gone through 1.5 32oz brake fluid bottles so far. I don't see any leaks where air would be getting in, could it be coming in from the master? When bleeding I fully depress the clutch pedal, going slowly, so I would think air wouldn't get in.

At times I can get into 3rd gear but can hear the clutch disc spinning, so full disengagement isn't happening. There was another thread from GM Shane who was having similar issues as me, and it turns out it was the clutch springs hitting the pressure plate fingers. I'm trying to explore all options before removing the engine to see if I'm having the same interference issue. Is there anything else I'm missing or should check? This has been an incredibly frustrating and demotivating process. I'm so close to driving the car, I just want this fixed!
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Gall757
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Report this Post08-11-2013 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
never heard of a slave cylinder traveling 1.5". Maybe it's fine, but it's unusual.
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Jfrost
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Report this Post06-25-2014 10:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JfrostSend a Private Message to JfrostEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was finally able to pull the engine and much to my dismay it looks like clearance issues with the clutch disc. Going to give ClutchNet a call to see what can be done.







------------------
Project L67 Fiero

[This message has been edited by Jfrost (edited 06-25-2014).]

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trotterlg
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Report this Post06-25-2014 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Kind of thinking you have the disc in backwards. Larry
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Jfrost
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Report this Post06-25-2014 10:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JfrostSend a Private Message to JfrostEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by trotterlg:

Kind of thinking you have the disc in backwards. Larry


That was a thought of mine too. I had the spring side facing away from the flywheel. If I flip it around the spring hat assembly doesn't sit flush inside the center portion of the flywheel.
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Jfrost
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Report this Post06-25-2014 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JfrostSend a Private Message to JfrostEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The "hat" was facing outward. If it's flipped around it doesn't sit flush against the flywheel.

[This message has been edited by Jfrost (edited 06-25-2014).]

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trotterlg
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Report this Post06-25-2014 11:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think they gave you parts that don't play well together. Larry The way the first picture looks is that is in backwards, but now that I see if from the side I see problems for sure.

[This message has been edited by trotterlg (edited 06-25-2014).]

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Jfrost
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Report this Post06-25-2014 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JfrostSend a Private Message to JfrostEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They sure did. Give. GM Shane's luck I don't have much hope for ClutchNet making things right, especially since I bought it well over 2 years ago but have never driven the car due to this issue.
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trotterlg
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Report this Post06-25-2014 11:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just measured a standard clutch from the top of the spring housing to the face of the disc is a little less than .6 inches. I used one of these with good results. Larry
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Jfrost
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Report this Post06-27-2014 09:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JfrostSend a Private Message to JfrostEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My question is would the pressure plate I have work with that clutch? I don't know whether it is the pressure plate or clutch disc that is the problem. I can go out and measure the clutch disc later today like you did.
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